Help Beating LP -> Lp/dblpalm/throw flowcharts

as pai

anyone know good ways to beat lp -> fast middle attack / throw / more lp , flowcharts?

all i can do right now is guess, crouching dashing / backing doenst work against double palms range, dodging is a guessing game against throw, plus i cant counter with anything after dodging lp.

 

Well if you get hit on counter with a low P, the opponent has a strong guessing game, there's no way around that. It's the same as if you got a sidekick blocked or something.

What you want to do is avoid being hit by a low P in the first place. Use + and + since they avoid low P (among other things) when you are at disadvantage. + is especially potent, because there are like a billion mixups from it.

+ - The is special high, so they can't attack after the +. If you fully charge the , it's mid and causes a guardbreak, and you get a free launch. Not to mention you can cancel the charged with and do a easy ++/+ mixup, or whatever other mixup you want.

++ - You can stop at the 2nd P and throw/mixup, which is very annoying. If they start trying to low P/attack after the 2nd P, just use the + to launch them. You can do normal + juggles off of it. On top of that, the + is only throw-counterable. You can also do +/+.

Mix all these up, especially + -> + again, or + -> backdash +. Be creative.

If you are blocking it, they are -4 after a blocked low P, but you have to respond fast. With Pai you can use + or + after you block a low P. The most effective thing you can do in this situation is block the low P in crouch, and immediately do + to launch. You can modify your fuzzy guard so that you always block low P in crouch, while still being able to guard elbows.

 

pai breaks every rule in VF, .... why havent u found something yet!?? /versus/images/graemlins/lol.gif



+p ---- sabaki vs mid and hits a throw attempt.

+p ---- ducks elbow in open stance for a +1

EXACLY same proporties as goh's shoulder ram. so it will beat low P and duck elbows at disadvantage. +1 on hit

(note: in evo, pai plays nitaku at +1 with swallow k / throw, so you are sorted with followups)

 

Swallow K comes out in 14 frames, so it will not beat a low P at +1. I've seen it hop over a low P at +1, but it's very inconsistent and rare. Plus it hits on normal hit in that situation, so she still only has +1 afterwards.

 

so it's a 13 frame move yet it exectutes in 14 frames?

in evo the move the data is 13, in ft the data is 14.

having said that, yes she hops lows even at small disadvantage let alone +1. atleast -1 she gets way with it, not sure about any higher.

in this match 01:32 mark
archangel gets a +1 with the rising palms and beats my low P with swallow kick.

that's why the u/f+k - u/f+kk flow chart works with the +1. in funny sitautions ive been hammered down just for doing a low P at my advantage too.

 

Pai's FC double palm is +3 on normal hit. /versus/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

oh ur right /versus/images/graemlins/ooo.gif my bad

i'll just stick to the other examples then, atleast we know FC f+p it's a legit elbow / throw breaker on stance.

 

not to be too technical in a thread that doesn't call for it but pidgeon kick comes out in 14 in evo due to the 1 frame needed for the game to recognize that it isn't just the jump k, same reason moves that have dash inputs (like Fei's 66p elbow ) comes out in frame more unless you put in specific input shit (sad face that it's his elbow and still more often than not, it comes out in 15 /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif)

 

i see, somehow i was aware whenever i look at the move being exicuted on it's own .. what happens when you have the command already buffered? does it stiil execute in 14? to me it looks slightly more solidifyed than non-buffered.

but having said that it's hopping abilities still give it at better nitaku game then a 14 frame elbow but im not sure to what adv you begin to interrupt the swallow kick. with low P, but i think you can still eat the move at -1. (i.e her +1)

mabye i should test it later just to be certain.

 

[ QUOTE ]
SH_ said:(sad face that it's his elbow and still more often than not, it comes out in 15 /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif)

[/ QUOTE ]

oh shut up at least you HAVE an elbow thats supposed to come out in 14 in at least some weird situation. i get a 14 frame P and 16 frame elbow

 

[ QUOTE ]
Dandy_J said:

Well if you get hit on counter with a low P, the opponent has a strong guessing game, there's no way around that. It's the same as if you got a sidekick blocked or something.

What you want to do is avoid being hit by a low P in the first place. Use + and + since they avoid low P (among other things) when you are at disadvantage. + is especially potent, because there are like a billion mixups from it.

+ - The is special high, so they can't attack after the +. If you fully charge the , it's mid and causes a guardbreak, and you get a free launch. Not to mention you can cancel the charged with and do a easy ++/+ mixup, or whatever other mixup you want.

++ - You can stop at the 2nd P and throw/mixup, which is very annoying. If they start trying to low P/attack after the 2nd P, just use the + to launch them. You can do normal + juggles off of it. On top of that, the + is only throw-counterable. You can also do +/+.

Mix all these up, especially + -> + again, or + -> backdash +. Be creative.

If you are blocking it, they are -4 after a blocked low P, but you have to respond fast. With Pai you can use + or + after you block a low P. The most effective thing you can do in this situation is block the low P in crouch, and immediately do + to launch. You can modify your fuzzy guard so that you always block low P in crouch, while still being able to guard elbows.

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i've been told that + and + beats lps, but it seems to be very inconsistent, alot of times the 2nd lp mcs me out of the executions of these moves, ie. i try to execute them in a slight disadvan

do those moves always works if done at exact same time as the enemies lp? do i need to be at advan?

 

They should work when you are at disadvantage, I'm not sure about advantage. If you do them at advantage, the low P can counter hit, since it'll hit way after the 'avoidance' frames. But of course if you have advantage, go for a fast attack that will win due to speed (+/+ at +2, etc).

Try testing out everything in training. Set the CPU to guard all -> counter w/ low P. Do flowcharts like +, +, and figure out what disadvantage is needed for stuff to work. Have the CPU do (blocked move ->low P if you want to test with advantage).