How to deal with Kage

Here's how to deal with some of Kage's moves:

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
Plusses:<ul>[*]combo on any hit[*]beats low attacks[*]even situation on block[/list]
Minuses:<ul>[*]slow execution[*]Akira, Aoi, and Wolf can reverse this on sight[*]Can dodge on sight[*]Many Kage's use this move in the same situations, making it even easier to see coming[*]If hit out of it with something as simple as /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif Kage goes flying[/list]

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Plusses:<ul>[*]Ducks high attacks[*]combo on any hit[/list]

Minuses:<ul>[*]Slow execution[*]Mid attacks beat it[*]Must hit check to get the combo[*]Second hit is high, so if you block the first hit and duck the second you get guaranteed damage[*]Kage will use this at disadvantage to beat your /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, so don't /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif when he uses this move. Use a mid launcher and watch Kage go flying. He is a ninja, and ninjas like to fly right? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/list]

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
Plusses:<ul>[*]Supposdly best throw in the game[*]Huge ring out potential[*]Huge damage potential[*]Relative ease of execution[/list]

Minuses:<ul>[*]Every Kage uses this throw, so escape back!!![*]Fight in the middle of the ring to avoid getting rung out. If Kage baits you to the edge of the ring wait in the middle and he'll run in with running /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, block it and combo him to your heart's content. [*]Everyone has a throw you don't want to get hit by. Wolf has the giant swing, jeffery has splash mountain, shun has his /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, and Kage has the TFT. This doesn't make Kage uber unstoppable top tier.[*]Throw escape /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif problem solved gg no re k thx.[/list]

If you watch Fudo in the KS4 finals he avoids Kage's new stance by backing away, which seems to be a really effective way to deal with it. He is also really careful to always fight in the middle of the ring.

Anyone else have any tips to add?

 

Re: Proof that Kage is a cheap motherfucker!

thanx namflow! i didnt know wolf can reverse kage's 9 K+G...i never attempted it.

 

Re: Proof that Kage is a cheap motherfucker!

Good shit Namflow. Maybe this thread can be edited by a Mod so that the quality anti-Kage info isn't competing with the drivel?

 

Re: Proof that Kage is a cheap motherfucker!

To add to that: Pai can also reverse on sight, and Lion and Vanessa can sabaki on sight.

The other thing to point out about TFT damage is that its max potential is 70 points (AFAIK), though most TFT combos used average 65 points.

 

Re: Proof that Kage is a cheap motherfucker!

hey ice9

do TFT...then 9K+G...then small stomp. good luck techrolling that.

remember, you said "potential."

hmmmmm...how many points is that?

 

Re: Proof that Kage is a cheap motherfucker!

That combo isn't guaranteed. The 9K+G on it's own is 65 dmg. With the stomp it's 78. Denkai uses this a lot. I use 6K+G > 6K > small pounce. The whole thing takes off 88-93 damage. But again it isn't guaranteed. People can techroll initially to avoid any damage, or they can TR after 6K. If i leave out 6K, it nets me 80 damage.

I reiterate though, THIS COMBO ISN'T GUARANTEED.

 

Re: Proof that Kage is a cheap motherfucker!

but again, yet ANOTHER potential max damage...

 

Re: Proof that Kage is a cheap motherfucker!

OK when I play against you I will be sure to use it, since you seem to have problems tech rolling LOL. But I sure won't be using it against good players.

 

Re: Proof that Kage is a cheap motherfucker!

You should practice Techrolling after TFT and not let Kage players get away with this. Most people in NYC and Cruzlink especially never get hit by this anymore. And they punish me accordingly when I miss.

 

Re: Proof that Kage is a cheap motherfucker!

you'll prolly beat me ice. im just a scrub! i was simply trying to point out that there are higher max damage potentials. how bout tft into the wall for additional pts of damage?

 

Re: Proof that Kage is a cheap motherfucker!

The idea of getting higher damage potentials against an opponent who doesn't TR is not exclusive to Kage and his TFT.

Lion for example can do 2_6P+G > 46K+G > 2K (buffered) > heavy pounce. In this case 46K+G is the only thing guaranteed.

It's good that you pointed that higher NON-Guaranteed setup so that people will know about it and not fall victims. I myself only use this combo if I know that my opponent doesn't know about it or have trouble Techrolling. Otherwise I go for the guaranteed combos which average around 65 of damage like Ice-9 said.

 

Re: Proof that Kage is a cheap motherfucker!

Big thanks for the post, Namflow ^_^

For the people that do know these basic things about Kage's signature moves, they are often overlooked by people who don't have enough experience fighting against Kage (me).

I have to admit, I'm still in the mindset of seeing what I can block and I tend not to do dodge or sabaki on sight of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. And yet I'll be the one to tell players in Portland all the moves they could easily dodge on sight out of Lion's arsenal.

I hate having that tendency of looking for certain somethings to happen instead of watching what's happening right now in the match...

 

Re: Proof that Kage is a cheap motherfucker!

Add Goh to the sabaki list as well.


I was reluctant to delve into this thread but I'm with Shang. I've hated Kage and thought he was cheap since VF2. heh heh /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

I was going to start playing him in VF5 just like Shang did but they improved Goh a lot so I stuck with him. I'm pretty sure if I was to start playing Kage I would get a lot more wins. He is TOO GOOD. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

I chortle at the Kage supporters. Just admit Kage is good, so what. VF5 Kage is even better than FT Kage and in FT he was prolly the 2nd or 3rd best character. The new stuff he got in VF5 is way better than the stuff he lost from FT in my opinion.

I think your wrong. I can honestly say I haven't really got into VF5 and learn the engine but I think FT and even Evo did a much better job with gameplay and balance. There are less players playing VF5 overall than VF4 and its different versions in Japan, I wonder why is this?

There is a lot of BS and WTF stuff in general Sega put into VF5 that I wish would change but I will just deal with it. In the end there still is no sure-fire technique in the game that can't be countered. Personally

I know Sega is working on another revision and hopefully they will make changes for the better. If I was to request one change for Kage is to bring back the command for TFT to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif like it was in FT. Its not a big change I know but why did Sega feel to make it easier? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

 

Re: Proof that Kage is a cheap motherfucker!

It's weird for me but i find the 180 command TFT easier to do =P Actually they should make the TFT 270, I wouldn't be oppose to that as a Kage player myself. And yes, I admit Kage is strong I find it easier to play with him than with my secondary character Lion.

But enough about Kage, let's talk about the bitches Eileen and Pai /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

Re: Proof that Kage is a cheap motherfucker!

You know how ppl tend to say that you shouldn't worry when someone says you play cheap or smth, as long as you enjoy your character....
Well.... I still use Pai, thoguh ppl say she's cheap, I just like her /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif But hell.... all this talk... just took away all the interest I had in playing Kage... sad /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

 

Re: Proof that Kage is a cheap motherfucker!

And Brad too...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm pretty sure if I was to start playing Kage I would get a lot more wins. He is TOO GOOD. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif</div></div>

Talk is cheap!

 

Re: Proof that Kage is a cheap motherfucker!

Was watching this Kage mirror match and in reference to dealing with him in Shippuujin stance, one of the guys seemed to have low interrupt with 44k+g on reflex.

VF5 rev.1 match Senningiri(KA) vs Jin(KA)

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Guess most characters should have some kind of an equivalent?

 

Believe it or not, Sarah has one of the best moves in the whole game to deal with Kagay's new stance.

Depending on distance...as soon as Kagay gets into his new stance, try to moonsault over him!

There's no 'real' answer to how to deal with Kage...since he's such a flexible guy.

The best answer against him is defence...and...lotsa fuzzy guarding...and...stop moving around unless you really need to!

Moving around too much is an invitation to be slapped (d/f+p), kicked (d+k+g), TFT/DPOD.

A key thing is to pay attention to kage as you're TR-ing...the distance between the kage and his opponent plays a big factor in his choice of moves.

I hate fighting Kagay...I love doing the DPOD to ppl thought! So fun!

 

Re: Proof that Kage is a cheap motherfucker!

Thank you Namflow for treating this forum like it's supposed to be treated.

Tidbits about /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif;

[*] Pai's shouldn't reverse this move but Inashi, inashing midkicks are sweet.

[*] Kages on guard often do mixups of the sort /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, another /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, backdash /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (stagger), and backdash /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (stagger). Doing backdash attack on your own will really help against many of Kages options and hurt his mixups. Or atleast complicate matters more then just doing 2p or guarding.
[*]OM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif against his front works against 2p for instance in this even situation btw but will loose to backdash attack. It's OK to fuzzy / wait and see what happens without shame (almost) also.

[*] If Kage's do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif in Okizeme (the only real place where this move should be applied imo), due to active frames, the situation can be adv to Kage and *not* even so that his elbow wins over a /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. Many doublefeeted moves etc are this way. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif can also hit in the back against someone who's crumbled TR'ing from certain mixups (atleast was that way in evo) .

[*]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif; If you guard the first hit you can OM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif against Kage's front against the second on reaction and get a crumble. Then again Kage *should* be hitchecking this move.