Jean Disadvantage from evaded strings

Evading & Punishing Jean’s Strings

All frames are based on evading at the first available frame and punishing at the first available frame on successful evade. They also assume no delaying of Jean's string. If he delays and you evade, you will have MORE adv than noted here. This list is only denoting guaranteed punishment so the lowest available exe frames are only reported. You are evading the last move in the denoted string.

All his charge moves leave you at same adv as his PPP(max charge) or (partial charge) moves.

+4
PP (frames available depend on how long they delayed string)
4PP

Test is 17F move beats 12f 2p while 18f move loses.
Evade to his front and you get sidethrow, evade to his back you get front throws on the PP.

+8
PPP(max charge) P

+11
PPP
4K+GP

+12
PK
33PK
KP
4KP
4KK [You will be tracked by followup P if evading to his front]

+13
PPP(max charge)K [no frame adv if follow-up used]
6PP [no frame adv if follow-up used]
4PK

+14
PPK
P6P
PKP
2KK
3KK
4K+GPP

+15
3PP

+16
PPP(max charge) KK
46PK

+17
PPP(max charge) PPK
KPP
4KKP

+20
PP2K

+21
4PP(max charge)
4KKK
9KP

+24
PKP(max charge)

+26
PPP (max charge)
4KP(max charge) [must evade to his back or you will be tracked]

+30
PPP(charge) K
33PK(max charge)
9KP(max charge)






#FGT #WithLove

 

Online... Discard all this shit. Ive evaded on first active frame and attacked on first active frame and hit nothing. Jean is an enigma.. You can never figure him out. You can only hope to get lucky every now and then.. Too many user friendly and powerful tools that are easily accessible. LTE and lots of Low risk high reward move makes him fearsome and frustating for certain characters

 

Hey guys. I just wanted to add on a few things Tricky missed in his OP

http://tinyurl.com/awmkzkd

 

I put it in the bottom, but it was too small. I like urs more.

 

Sounds like you are describing Jacky! You know that matchup is in Jacky's favor right? : P

@Cozby - Can you avatar-size that for me?

@Tricky - Nice thread! Punishing evaded strings is pretty important. I don't know 100% what advantage I'm at for most of these situations but I know what I can punish with. Like Jacky's 1P+K,P,P and 1P+K,P,K are both launch punishable on evade after guarding the string.

 

Not Online GT.

 

What exactly changes for Jean or Jacky with a few frames of delay and a 30 frame buffer window?

As you can see I have 0 problem fuzzy guarding NH P, 2P. I punish properly on evade and in general do all of the same things I apply offline. What is the problem?

On Topic - I usually just pick the key strings from characters and punish those properly.

Jacky - 1P+K,P etc.
Goh - 3K,P
Eileen - 6P+K.P,P.

 

We talked about it in shoutbox but for others who have same question. You are evading the last hit in the string and punishing. You don't have 26 frames if you evade the 3rd P in the PPP string, you only got 11frames to work with.

 

My tests are based on someone trying to block. You're likely to find different advantages against someone who chooses to abare. When I recorded the CPU to do PPP I made sure to hold G as soon as I hit the last P so that he'd be guarding from the very first frame. If you don't do this you can get a mCH with moves that aren't guaranteed. I don't know why but if you don't guard, even hold guard, you'll end up getting mCH when you would have been able to block. I'm going to guess this is what you're coming across.

 

Nice post Tricky, we could do with threads like this for other characters strings

Well I never...

 

By all means find the range of frames you can work with. I just don't see a way to reliably delay strings to their max without a computer controlled controller. For my purposes, I only will test for the least amount of frames I can get from evading which means no delay. Maybe someone else can come through and add the max possible frames you can get.

I'm curious in the example you put tho, why did you say +4 frames when it's +11. Or are you referring to something else? Strings like Jacky's 1P+KPP are strings where I actually see knowing the delay punish frames to be useful. Though I suspect that you will get tracked if someone were to not delay and you were to use a delay exe frame punish move.

 

The command list data doesn't give you what you need to calculate strings like you can for single attacks. This is because you don't have the value for your true adv/dis if someone is to continue a string. The equation breaks down.

 

If that were true things like Jacky's 4P1P wouldn't be unblockable from sideturn. If someone can break down using only the command list frame data why that is unblockable then we'd know what we need to make a formula for strings. Using what you just suggest, Jacky's 4P2K should be unblockable on block also but it isn't. Different strings let you cancel out different frames in the previous move. We currently have no way of knowing which string allows for what outside of raw testing.

 

Nvm I looked at the frames wrong. Jean also gets unblockables that dont' make frame sense either cuz of strings.