Returning to Vanessa.

I used to play Vanessa a lot in Evo as a secondary character, but when I got my (limited) access to VF5, I concentrated on Lion.

Now that I've got regular access to the PS3, I'm concentrating on getting Vanessa up to scratch. Or at least a passable level. I was wondering about a few things, though.

Her moves from Guard in Defensive Stance seem way, way less useful than they were - are they worth using in matches now, just more situationally, or are they something to forget about? Same as her neutral Hand-Hold grapple. It seems really toned down in 5, though it does look a lot cooler and has some nice zoning characteristics.

I'm using Offensive Style a lot more this time round, too. It seems to be very, very rewarding. Are there any tips or tricks to using Vanessa that weren't available in VF4/Evo? I'm loving /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, especially after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif.

 

Moves from guard sucks now imo (at least the 2_8+P ones , the 9 seems just a bit shorter in range but still OK concerning evasive properties), I didn't search a lot in training for situations were /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif2_8+P could evade elbows etc but according to vs play it's really towned down.
What's better now is 6+K hit throw, 3+K is even better because it still has great range, really good recovery, and with the new system -5 situation isn't as dangerous as before, and if you're at maximum range opponent have to be very careful about ther counter attack when they block it, cause vanessa has so many defensive options after it.
66+K is still very good too.
Her main weakness in this stance imo is still punishment in -11 to -16 situations where your best option is to gamble with a throw imo.
Neutral hold is so so, you get garanteed damage + side turn situation with strange properties. IIRC With K followup opponent can't guard your PP2K but he's actually able to crouch under it, and under your throw as you'll have to dash to get in range. It makes him open to side stagger or dash into Low throw, or even 6+PKK which becomes a natural combo when opponent is side turned iirc. If he attacks 3+K will cause side crumble, so i'ts a strong guessing but nothing is guaranteed. P followup seems weaker as he can stand guard your PP2K...


OS is really better, if your opponent don't know how to deal with 46+P strings he's in real trouble.
66+K,2_8K really works for me, it opens very strong side turned situation if the 2_8 K hits as counter (and most of the time it does). Opponent won't be able to crouch your throw attempt, only option for him are escape or attack (or well used sabaki ^^). The later makes him open to 3+K side crumple wich leads to a pretty mean combo (43+P+K, 4+PPK seems to work even if it misses sometimes may be you'll have to dash in or something I still didn't figure out yet).
In this stance you get decent punishment even at -11 with P,K leading in +4 situation.
Her main weakness in this stance imo is her linearity and maybe throws.

 

Is it just me, or is ARM really useful for Vanessa?

I was playing around with it all day yesterday, and at max range of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif after block: you can avoid pretty much anything and bait whiff. Maybe it is just the AI?

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I'm curious how you guys buffer WC/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif?

 

I've found that if I judge the range right, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif are pretty much impossible to punish, for both the AI or a human opponent. Unless they evade the chargable mid, OM, and then attack.

The AI wouldn't do that, though. The AI falls for /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif -> lowthrow about 8 times in ten, even with named ranks. :|

I'll experiment with that buffering tonight hopefully. Can't say I've done it before, but I'm a n00b, so...