So is BT really that good?

So when playing Goh I do try to set up BT situations because he does have quite a few options from there, but it dosent seem as effective as say the VF5 strategy guide makes it out to be. the P+K move seems to be the best bet from there but sometime it seems too slow to be that effective. His BT throw seems a little slow and... just weird sometimes, ive seen it miss completely even when my opponent was really close. I would get the sound and animation for the throw to come out, but i would just get hit out of it or it would just miss or something. Strange..

So am I just not doing it right? Anyone have any indepth intermediate/advanced strategy for BT??

 

You can do another P,K into BT from BT if you think they will try to jab you out of it. BT P+K is fast, I think it's around 14 frames so that's really good. If you hit with BT P+K they are side-turned too so you can throw or try to crumple them from there. The throw does fairly good damage and is not escapable so it's also good.

You can also cancel the BT with Guard and input a throw which will come out as a 0-frame because you are turning around.

 

Yes, its as good as the black book makes it out to be. Just make sure you keep in mind that 10 frame jabbers can jab out of it. If you see them start to P, just don't go back turned after the PK and use 2P or OM. Also be aware of characters that have mp sabaki's and moves that can beat both BT P+K and throw. that's where BT K and not going BT comes in handy.

Oh, and I think it's much better to go for 0-frame 270 instead of the BT P+G which I never use. The BT catch throw seems to miss if the opponent ducks for a split second, that's probably what happened when you missed when you were near them.

 

You must have some ill reaction speed if you can see a jab coming in the first few frames and then decide wich action to take on the fly.

 

It's pretty clear I meant after you've seen them do it during the match already.

 

On hit /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif is +3. Now /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is a great follow up and leads to a side turned opponent (use throw for MC hit and you know they're going to stand and guard, or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (?) to get side stagger if they try to abare) if the abare, but all character's jabs can beat you as well as /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif.

BT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is elbow speed and will eat /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and all jabs except for 9-10 framers (or does it duck?[I haven't explored Goh in so long]). A cool feature of this move is after landing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (this is your anti-clash move)and getting the stagger, doing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif will bounce the slightly if they don't struggle fast enough (am I mistaken? I personally don't remember, but I think it has similar properties to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif in that situation).

BT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif will beat those jabs and reset the game.

BT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is a catch throw that you use when you've put fear in the opponent after snuffing any attacks they attempt and they're just guarding or trying to evade. Always do the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif follow up over /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif; damage is damage.

BT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is just okay; I never really used it much, but it has considerable reach compared to his of BT stuff, so if your opponent likes /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b_.gif of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif, it might hit them. Being a half-circ is an added bonus to it being a 14 frame knock down attack... but meh. Goh's oki is kinda hard.

BT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is like his /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif: fucking stupid.
-----

In my experience in my modest time with Goh, you'll only get /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif to connect (though constantly), because /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is so damn popular.

Just remember to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif punish at +11-13 (a big window).

Just check the Goh Wiki... oh wait... it'll never be done.

 

The only thing I wish you can do in BT is tech roll away but just wishfull thinking. I like to do jump kick to BT then either Down punch or down kick if I'm at a distance. If it connects on a counter hit you can attempt a low grab as well, if they don't break it. (Usually not though). So I disagree that down kick after BT is dumb or even/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif It really works ok on counter hits for low grabs.

 

BT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif stuffs /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif as well and sets up side crumple throw mixup, why use BT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif instead?

 

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif on hit is +3.

BT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is 16 frames. BT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is 14.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is 12 frames.

What works online does not work offline. (factoring lag and people who don't delay /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif)

 

I know that, I'm just asking for clarification mostly because people have said Goh's BT P+K is actually 14 frames and not 16...

 

I believe the 16frames listed in the Wiki is wrong. I also believe that BT P+K is 14frames...

 

seems like BT 2p is your best bet. Does it stagger if they are crouching?

 

BT P+K is your best bet by far. I only use BT 2p if they block the punch-kick combo going into BT (or after a 9K+G hit because 2p will give you a combo opportunity if you land it during their stagger.) Go for P+K first and if they are blocking it switch to another option. A BT P+K to side turn them with a dash up 270 throw or a side crumple if they abare is HUGE damage and enough to turn the tide of any round.

If they are blocking, use the BT throw or cancel the BT, turn around and 0-frame throw them. The BT mix-up boils down to those two moves for the most part. Those are your BEST TWO OPTIONS from back-turn. Forget 2p unless you are in a specific situation where it is called for.

You will get 100 times more mileage out of BT P+K and BT P+G or cancel back-turn and throw. Trust me my son!

BTW, there is no move in the game that will beat a second P,K into BT combo from BT. Even the fastest punchers in the game cannot beat out your BT P,K combo into another back turn.

If you land the P,K into BT you are +3. Even a 10-frame jab won't beat your 11-frame jab>kick into BT again. When they realize they don't have a fast enough attack they may have already eaten two or three P,K combos returning you to BT each time and then you can throw them. If you land a BT P+K you can crush them right there with a throw or crumple combo and it's over period, done, finished...

 

good stuff, thanks. im starting to understand the mix up a little better.

 

oh right, my bad dude haha.

 

Keep in mind that the BT P+G is, like all other catch throws, great against people who love to ETEG.

 

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gifs.

Yeah! I have +7 now!

---

You're right, but /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > creative game play.

 

bt setups are good imo. i like stuff into BT P+G.

 

amazing insight, BT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is grate

 

I'm almost 100% sure that Sebo is right about BT p+k being 16 frames (and it not being a typo in the command list). But I think it still beats your opponent's 2p because you are too far after a p,k BT for the opponent's 2p to connect.

Unfortunately I'm not in front of my PS3 to test, but if someone can, please do. I'm almost certain that the opponent's 2p will whiff if Goh doesn't do anything after a p,k BT.