Tips for VF4Evo players in VF5?

So, my experience with VF5 is pretty limited (5th Dan, about 120 matches total), and I'm not getting a PS3 anytime soon, so my best option is practicing with VF4Evo in the meantime, and playing VF5 when I have the chance at a friend's place.

Anyone got any tips on adjusting from Evo-style to VF5 with Lion? His P+K+G parry doesn't seem too useful, even with the canned evade, I've not found a use for his Kanpo other than occasionally getting a good stomach crumple with the followup knee against people that don't block, and his 4 P+K+G pseudo-stance with the followup attacks is a little hard to get the hang of. The best use I've found for it so far is to back away from a flurry of advancing attacks, then jumping back into the fray with P+K (the double-palm-strike looking move), and hopefully a counter.

Can't really be more specific than that, as I've not played enough to bring up any other points of note. I do like some of the new options for combos that I've been trying out, though.

 

Hi Kay, and welcome to the community, glad to have you! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Well, as far as I've experienced, and coming from an Akira/Goh player, it's really hard to try and practice VF5 strategies and combos on VF4Evo, they are significantly different. The only real things that I will practice are command inputs, like Akira's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif -> release /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif after 1 frame knee, or combos that actually did translate over from Evo to 5.

I'm getting more useful practice just staying around after work and playing for an hour every few days... but for the most part, unless it is something incredibly specific, with same properties between the two games, practicing it won't be fruitful.

That's my sole opinion though, what does everyone else think?

 

VF4 Evo has a really good practice tutorial setup for lion which is about practicing hit checking after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif.
In VF5 this move is no longer throw conterable so you may practice DTEG after it is guarded instead of TEG. This is still an important part of lion's game in VF5.

 

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif has to be one of my favorite moves for Lion! I still need to polish up my combos off of it if I get the hit, but I remember the tutorial section that has the hit checking afterwards. I'll give it a go later tonight.

Thanks for the help, I'll have to investigate which are still doable in Evo. I found that quite a bit of my game still worked well, but there was a lot of new stuff to Lion, and some of his older things weren't as effective anymore.

 

Lion is one of the characters in VF5 where you can play VF4 style pretty decently and it feels more or less the same (within the VF4 moves). He certainly has some wonderful new options that were added in FT and VF5 though.

KK is still guaranteed after blocking some attacks so continue to work that into your game. Learn which big attacks give you a guaranteed KK on block. I personally don't use this enough, but I'm working it more into my game. Especially against Lei Fei.

PK is still the safe fast damage option when you have guaranteed high punch. In VF5, Lion has PKP with the last hit looking like df+P+K but it has a really good distinction: the last hit is special high and it will punish opponents who do low punch after PK. Just know that in VF5, you'll have a special high option after PK.

b,b+K --> P+K combos have the same feel and are still damaging if you can set them up. Just work on using them only when you know you can land it (on good players, it'll be hard, but you can set it up in flowcharts like Low P --> back dash --> (see opponent whiff something) --> b,b+K combo.

The rules on Lion's low pokes are more or less the same as they have been for awhile. They are good pokes, but the situation sucks @$$ for Lion if they are blocked. That said, never be too afraid to low poke, just make sure you're not overdoing it. If you can keep your opponent honest by always considering that you will low poke, you're setting up a good situation for your mid attacks. If they are blocked, be prepared.

d+K is still the same. Should only use it if you think you'll interrupt. Repeat that: ONLY USE IT IF YOU THINK YOU'LL INTERRUPT THEIR ATTACK (especially high attack). You have to wait and see whether or not it hits or MCs though. If it's blocked, you're screwed but you can sometimes throw in the second kick to keep opponent from punishing the first one (but you'll still be super screwed if they block the second one). If it hits, you do have to think about defense because it's still disadvantage on hit. If it MCs, you have guaranteed second K or guaranteed K+G if they are standing.

u+P+K plays the same role. Good fast mid range attack for when opponent's whiff or are getting too aggressive outside of close range. b,b+K is better for punishing whiffs if opponent ends up standing, but u+P+K is more solid because it'll hit the opponents who are whiffing an attack that crouches them.

df+P is still the same flowchart it's always been more or less. Same with elbow.

On df+P+G throw, df+P is no longer the guaranteed option (which was a nice option because you could flowchart off of it). The guaranteed attack after the surprise exchange is now u+P+K.

u+K is generally the same. However, in VF5, Lion has a new attack (b,f+K) that is superb at punishing low attacks.

Lion's manual sidesteps are more or less the same. Still fun to work in the eye poke or the low swipe if you avoid a high punch with it. However, they're still elements of Lion's game that I don't really recommend people do much of. But they're fun.

Sidekick is a decent range check poke and there are situations where you should use it. Just be cautious if your opponent has sidekick sabaki (Shun has a freaking awesome sabaki attack in VF5 that's so good at punishing sidekick instincts).

fc, f+P+K is as good as it's always been imo. Great way to create distance and lets you play more guessing games with opponents.

The combo launchers are almost all the same:
-fc, f+P (MC)
-b,b+K
-fc, f+P+G
-u+K (MC)

However, Lion's got a lot of wicked wall combo options in VF5. I don't do those enough, but I'll have to put them in my game because they're better than easy money.

b,f+P+K, P --> flowchart is the same. Make opponent guess whether you will go for the third punch/elbow (since it crumples on MC) or a throw instead. Or anything else you want to do.

From Crouch, f+P uppercut is even safer to do in VF5 (aside from all the sidestepping people do VF5). The disadvantage on block isn't bad at all and it still combos more or less the same on MC.

The knee is a good close range poke to build some flowcharts around. A fast and decent mid. On normal hit the situation is neutral still but it's now +7 on MC (used to be +2). You'll have to be a bit sharper on how you flow from a normal hit, but you'll have a lot of options on MC. In VF5, he has the optional Kanpo stance from the knee but you don't want to use it too much (it at least works with the normal hit in giving you a sabaki option).

Those are just some things off the top of my head. There are more things you can practice in Evo that carries over just fine. That said, some of the things Lion has in VF5 that are nice:

-TRSF (f+P+K+G) - A good new stance that has a catch throw on top of many other great attacks. Having a catch throw is good, btw. f+P is a great option if you have the space to use it. If you can land KK, the second kick creates awesome combo opportunities.

-TRMF (b+P+K+G) - A great defensive stance. But has to be used at the right time. K interrupts aggressive opponents and sets up a stagger, d+K is a low poke for semi aggressive opponents and it crumples on MC, f+P+K is like a combination of fc, f+P+K's range push (when it MCs) and f+P+K (on normal hit).

-Kanpo (knee or PKP --> P+K+G) - The shuffling telegraphs the stance and I haven't checked to see if Lion can cancel the stance (personally, I hope he can but doubt it). Can sabaki high/mid fist and elbows with P. Can interrupt crumple with knee. Other than that, throwing is a decent option but it can only occur after the shuffling ends (which at that point your opponent should have a hunch on what you'll go for unless you mix it up nicely). Disciplined Kanpo used is a good option, but I feel it's tougher to implement on good opponents than one would like (if it had a low option or throw, I'd say work it into your game more).

-Parries - I like the parries, but mainly because of the novelty. Generally, you probably shouldn't build much game around parries. But they're actually decent and setup some great situations. I think we'll eventually figure out some excellent back crumple crap for Lion built around parries. I plan to write a post on the parries today. The problem with parries is that you often get the question: "Why don't you just dodge in the first place?" and that is a very good question that parry fans will have to answer.

 

great tips chan chai.... also.. try and utilize the k-cancel into your game. It won't psyche out the computer as much, but it will be helpful when you finally play some other people.