VF5 Fails the ButtonMashAbility Taste Test!

This past weekend me and my wife hosted a family,friends Fight Fest. Door prizes, free food, koolaid on the house, I mean the whole shabang.

We had husbands, wives, girlfriends, and boyfriends, some nieces and some nephews involved in a two day beatem up. The games were:
VF5, Tekken6,SC5, UFC 3. There was about 15 folks playin. Of the 15 ppl, 4 of us were serious VF5 players, 6 of the others were casual fight game (mostly Tekken6, and MK) players and the rest of the ppl not fight game players at all, but did play other kinds of video games.

On day 1 we divided up into teams and just had a lot of fun playing all the games, and day 2 ppl picked what they wanted to play (Oh No!!!!)

Although it was not a scientific test and is probably not statistically significant, it is at least a result that would make you say hmmm...

When we let everyone play just what they wanted to play and how they wanted to play it.

UFC 3 fell completely off the map!!! LOL I was the only one trying to convince ppl into matches.

The majority of the adhoc playing was with SC5. Especially the ppl who did not play fighting games at all. They were attracted to SC5 more than the other games.

Some of the Tekken and MK players picked VF5 on day two, but quickly put it down.

So at one point on day two when we are going through the 7th box of pizza, I asked the non VF players what was wrong with UFC 3 and VF5.

The short answer is SC5 was more fun, easier to play and win and so was Tekken. Everyone (except me) thought that UFC 3 was too hard to play, once you get knocked down, non UFC players had no idea what to do. They said VF5 was too hard. In both cases all the non VF5 players said the buttons didn't do anything (WTF?) Some said, I would be pushing this button and nothin good would happen(wtf?) Button in Tekken or SC5 no matter what button you push good things would happen (wtf?)

Anyway. There was wide consensus that SC5 was the easiest to play,and win at, which made it more fun.

Tekken 6 was the second most liked game on day 2

VF5 took third place or (next to last)

and UFC 3 was the most alien to everyone (accept me again).

As VF players we think the game is very approachable and easy, and fun. But this past weekend just gave me a wake a call. I really don't pay attention(or I've forgotten) the fact that the four face button on Tekken or SC5 allow a noob or casual player to be productive and the three button scheme, of VF5 is really not
a buttonMashFriendly as I thought it was.

The players that had no fight game experience at all, could actually land some meaningful shit in SC5 and Tekken, but failed miserably in VF5 and even worse in UFC 3.

So the fact that VF5 is not a popular as it should be, might mean there are more button mashers out there than we thought. And VF5
simply failed the ButtonMashAbility taste text.

 

Aw Naw.,. man, none of that stuff is Internet worthy. It really was all just family and few friends having fun,. nothing serious enough to rise to the level of a real competition.

It was noteworthy, that at the end of the day no one wanted to really mess around with UFC undisputed 3, which I think is a great game and easy, and only the serious VF players wanted to mess around with VF5. and the ppl that didn't like VF all pretty much said the same thing, its the buttons...
They just didn't feel as productive as they did in SC5 or Tekken 6.

The other comment that I got a few times, is "that one is kind of boring" referring to VF5. One or two ppl liked the look of UFC but didn't really want to play it much.

I'm thinking it just takes a special kind of fight gamer that gets attracted to VF. The average fight gamer just simply doesn't dig it. I've go to much anecdotal evidence that shows that to be true. When I think about it, every multi-game tourney, casual or serious I've ever been at since 2002, if VF
was one of the games being played, it was always the one with the least amount of interest.

 

I laugh

 

Whats masterpo says is hard to believe but true. I had the same story when i had PS2 and were playing with 4 friends of mine. Priority of liking was exactly
1. SC3
2. TK5/ DoA2
4. VF4Evo

I didn't understand how game with easiest controls wasn't newbie friendly. But because they only tried Akira, Shun Di, Lei Fei and Aoi (not shure about last one) they couldn't mash anything ^^" Only in one match someone took Sarah and destroyed opponent, and since I'm Jacky player they were punished constantly x)

 

I completely agree. With Tekken, SC, not to mention some of the anime fighters out there, something cool happens whenever you press a combination of the buttons with possibly a direction as well.

Characters will be teleporting, doing shoulder rams, throwing with different throws, etc.

In VF/UFC/other more technical looking (less flashy, more realistic-ish) games you actually need to press, for example + to get a move that looks... different from regular .

No wonder people get attracted to Namco fighters easier. Still, all the people I play fighting games with have switched to serious plans regarding VF today. The info from the interview and 4Evo on PSN worked wonders

Hopefully all of this will attract a larger crowd.

 

Why is mashability something that merits discussion? Do you think Soul Calibur or Tekken players lose to mashers?

I think VF's accessibility or lack thereof is almost unrelated. The people who want to mash at a game aren't really part of any of the major, tourney-oriented 3D-fighters target audience.

 

Most players start their journey as mashers though. That's kinda why the mash test is important.

 

Well, for starters, VF has a block button, and 2 attack buttons... SC has at least 1 extra button to speak of, but when one is mashing, you need not worry about the guard button because you still have moves that manage to come out fast anyway...

VF is generally slower paced for most newcomers to the game. It's only gets as fast the more you understand what the hell is going on... Watching stronger players play it makes it seem interesting, and when the newer people start to play, they want to initially be able to do something similar with minimal effort... SC and T6 can provide that, although there's still alot more to those games, the learning curve or "mashability" is rather lower than VFs. With T6 and SC, button mashing still provides fast movement without relying so much on the stick to move. In VF, yeah you need Jacky, Sarah, Lau, Brad and maybe Aoi for that type of "ability". Maybe things will change with FS.

 

In the youtube/tutorial mode era I kinda doubt it. Before? Yeah, because a lot of the mechanics were opaque to people.

 

I don't agree with you EmX. In order to actually use Youtube tutorials or read FAQs one has to already be interested in the game.

What is discussed above is how to get a person from "The fuck's this shit?" state to "Yeah, I might check out stuff on that game later on". The latter includes tutorials, but one has to be interested. At least a single fuck has to be given ^^

 

The thing is, get people who have no clue about fighting games to jump on something like 3rd Strike, and they'll probably not be into it.

I got my friend to try Gundam Extreme VS recently, so he tried some moves, mucked around a bit, and thought it was downright boring. Then, I jumped on and showed him some combos, and he suddenly thought the game was mad awesome.

People have to be able to see what you're capable of in the game to see its beauty, and unfortunately VF doesn't make you feel very capable as a beginner. Shuffling around doing PPP and standing K doesn't look that awesome or even intelligent to most people.

Plus, other fighting gamers are always shocked that with PPPK, you can block the kick even if you landed all the punches. What a useless combo! No one would use that beyond beginner level play!

 

I said "tutorial mode", Griever. As in a part of the game that shows you how to play it. The mechanics were opaque because manuals and guides weren't sufficient in the past.

In VF4 and VF4E people could just go to the tutorial mode and have an explanation of the game mechanics right there. That's a great thing, and I see aesthetics and the overall feel of the game also factoring into it. Whether or not you can mash your way through a few rounds casually isn't consistent with an era where people have a vast source of information about a product at their fingertips (even inside the game, how cool!) or an entire scene backing "fighting games" in general. If people were just pulling the game off the shelf at a movie rental place 90's-style then yeah it might factor in (quite a bit, probably!).

I'm not sure what about that you're actually disagreeing with.

 

Having some matches on the disk like what VF4 did, or some AI's that can just style on you, might help.

 

I'm only sharing what happened at a relatively small family & friends get together. But I have learned ppl make up their minds pretty quickly whether they will like a game or not. Some of the folks that were totally new to fighters completely, gravitated to SC 5 and Tekken and simply didn't find UFC 3 and VF5 interesting at all.

Now whether those ppl are tourney stock or will ever be serious fight gamers I have no idea. Its just an observation

It seems that VF is not ButtonMashFriendly. Neither is UFC 3.
At least for the Noobs at my get together, the initial experience with VF5 was not that fun.

Obviously I wish it had went the other way. VF is my weapon of choice, but things are what they are. Just reflecting back on last weekend, I don't think any amount of marketing, or backstory from Sega can change the fact that VF fails the
ButtonMashAbility test. And for some significant amount of potential players they start off as Button Mashers....

 

Exactly!

I don't like to make too many gross generalizations

but I think it might be a checkers vs chess thing.

Some ppl are attracted right off the bat to checkers and turned off by chess and vice versa. Even though the board is the same, and both games involve capturing pieces. The moves in one game are a turn on to some ppl and a turn off to others

Checkers probably sells more copies too!

 

From my experience people have no problems playing VF5 since its very straightforward. But I usually suggest certain characters to them since some are naturally easier than others.

Marlyjay, SF4 is definitely not a button masher game. People who don't play games have a very hard time doing fireball motions and other directional inputs.

I think the really big difference here is that VF5 doesn't have any flash. Tekken gives you explosions every time you hit the opponent. Soul Calibur has sparks and coloured streaks. To someone playing the game for the first time these things stand out and make you want to play more.

Heck, look at Mortal Kombat. Here is a game that was modeled completely around impressing people with its gore and never had much in the form of gameplay. And it worked, it was a huge hit back in the day since it brought something new.

VF5 can be very exciting when you watch high level play, but as a button masher its lacking. No explosions, no coloured streaks, no supers. Nothing that fills the screen with colours and makes people go "wow".

You're better off showing people some high level gameplay than letting them play if you really want to impress them, because at a basic level its a fun game, but its not going to make them want more. Most of the time anyways.

 

Flash wise, I think VF just beefed up sound effects and VF3-style collision modelling. There's some of that in FS, right?

 

I. EmX, tutorial is nice but you it kind of spoils the fun when there's 8 people huddled around a gaming console itching to play. That's where the "mashability test" comes in. But, as you and others have also mentioned, enticing new players is not limited to that.

II. EVERYBODY keeps "forgeting" that the best party fighting game is Super Smash Bros. Jump in, jump around, press buttons, shit happens, WOOOO! It supports 4 players, it's in 2D but doesn't require obscure inputs to do fancy moves ("wtf is a "shoryuken" input?"), there's LOTS of cameos. Then we have Soul Calibur because of the polish, then other games with less polish. DoA will be frowned upon by spouses, same goes for Arcana Heart etc. Disclaimer: i don't play SSB, i don't even own a Wii. I just read VFdc and have a memory span longer than a goldfish. All of this has been discussed rather extensively already.

III. Mods please move this thread to Community >> General. I mean i appreciate that a VFdc member has a social life but this seems like the wrong section of the forum to talk about it. With VF5FS around the corner non-VFDC members will be visiting our VF5 >> Console subforum to dig up info about VF5 and this thread will detrack/discourage them. Then delete my post.

 

I dunno, given all the other options for casual multiplayer games these days I don't think VF really needs to cater to that audience. I grew up with N64s, Gamecubes and Xbox 1s around for all that stuff. The Wii is really strong with that type of stuff too. I'm 25 and I skew toward the older end of the wider FGC in my area now. It feels weird, I tell ya what!

As an aside, people are willing to sit down and learn a game pretty extensively these days. Look at the success of a game like Starcraft 2, for example. That's who we need to be courting, although the whole 'esports/sponsorship' thing is another can of worms.

I don't find the argument that there's a need for it to fill a role at a party persuasive at all. It's not an enjoyable game to play drunk that's for sure.

I think overstating the impenetrability of a game like VF is the other side of the coin. Other competitive gaming communities have a perception problem with exactly where the challenges in becoming proficient at Virtua Fighter lie. To me that's a much more relevant topic 4 months out from the first major VF release in 5 years.