VF5US/R.E.V.O. Version 2.0 Shun Changes

Discussion in 'Shun' started by akai, Dec 13, 2024.

  1. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Content Manager Pai Bronze Supporter

    Steam:
    SteamID
    PSN:
    Akai_JC
    Placeholder for discussion and listing all the changes for Shun

    Official Change Log - https://www.virtuafighter.jp/vfes/ps4/ver2/en/

    Link to main thread. https://virtuafighter.com/threads/vf5us-version-2-0-update.22199/

    Move (Command) Changes
    Rengeki (PP)

    Changed the recovery on guard from -4 to -2 frames, on hit from -1 to +0 frames.

    Saishu Renkangeki (PPP)

    Changed the recovery on guard from -9 to -4 frames, on hit from -6 to -1 frames.

    Renkan Tenshin Haishu (PP4P)

    Changed to repeatedly hit on side hit.

    Renkan Gyou'inshu ((4 or more drinks) PP4PP)

    Changed to no longer repeatedly hit on normal hit.

    Rengeki Katai ((6 or more drinks) PPK)

    Changed the damage from 10 to 8, changed the recovery on guard when not performing an offshoot move from -24 to -16 frames, changed the recovery on hit from -20 to -12 frames.

    Rengeki Koukashutai ((6 or more drinks) PPKK)

    Changed the damage from 17 to 19.

    Chougeki Rigoutai (PK)

    Changed the recovery on normal hit from -1 to +3 frames.

    Suisen Gyou'in ((4 or more drinks) 4PP)

    Changed to no longer repeatedly hit on normal hit.

    Getsuga Gyou'in (46PP+K)

    Reduced the drink points required for Getsuga Gyou’in from 2 to 0. Getting a knockdown against Taka-Arashi will now cause a special hit state.

    Rensai Gyou'in ((4 or more drinks) 46PPP+K)

    Getting a knockdown against Taka-Arashi will now cause a special hit state.

    Rengeki Gyou'in ((6 or more drinks) 46PPPP+K)

    Getting a knockdown against Taka-Arashi will now cause a special hit state.

    Fuken Zan'un ((8 or more drinks) 214P)

    Recued the drink points required for Fuken Zan’un from 10 to 8.

    Gyou'in Haishu (3P)

    Getting a knockdown against Taka-Arashi will now cause a special hit state.

    Gyou'in Senshu ((4 or more drinks) 3PP)

    Reduced the drink points required for Gyou’in Senshu from 8 to 4.

    Gyou'in Renkan Tankyaku ((4 or more drinks) 3PPK)

    Reduced the drink points required for Gyou’in Renkan Tankyaku from 8 to 4.

    Koushutai(K)

    Being hit by an attack while transitioning to Chokaro will now result in a recovery counter hit.

    Renhi Chougeki (KK)

    Changed the effect on hit mid-air, now causes a spinning hit state.

    Renshu Haika Ryukyaku ((10 or more drinks) KK2PK)

    Reduced the drink points required for Renshu Haika Ryukyaku from 16 to 10.

    Gyoushin Suitai (4K)

    Reduced the total recovery frames, changed the recovery on guard from -29 to -19 frames.

    Hantoutai ((8 or more drinks) 214K)

    Reduced the drink points required for Hantoutai from 10 to 8.

    Tenshi Kouryoutai ((8 or more drinks) 214KK)

    Reduced the drink points required for Tenshi Kouryoutai from 10 to 8.

    Gyoushintai(3K)

    Expanded the hitbox. Changed the attack from a mid kick to a side kick when hit by a reversal.

    Koushu Katai (1K)

    Changed the damage from 10 to 8, changed the recovery on guard when not performing an offshoot move from -21 to -18 frames, changed the recovery on hit from -17 to -14 frames.

    Koushu Rentai (1KK)

    Changed the damage from 17 to 19.

    Hanshi Saigeki ((6 or more drinks) 43P+KP)

    Hanshi Saigeki can now also be performed with a P+K input, reduced the drink points required from 8 to 6.

    Suiryu Togetsu ((8 or more drinks) 214P+K)

    Reduced the drink points required for Suiryu Togetsu from 10 to 8. Reduced the drink points reduction from 3 to 2.

    Shoushi Outeki (1P+K)

    Expanded the hitbox.

    Tanhi Chougeki (K+G)

    Changed the recovery on normal hit from +2 to +3 frames.

    Zensen Soutai (2K+G)

    Reduced the drink points required for Zensen Soutai from 1 to 0.

    Renzensen Soutai ((4 or more drinks) 2K+GK)

    Reduced the drink points required for Renzensen Soutai from 6 to 4.

    Renkan Zensen Soutai ((6 or more drinks) 2K+GKK)

    Reduced the drink points required for Renkan Zensen Soutai from 7 to 6.

    Tenshin Kashitai (1K+G)

    Now considered a half circular attack. Changed the recovery on guard from -15 to -18 frames.

    Ryubikyaku (8K+G)

    Added low dodge frames to frames 9 ~ 16.

    Tenshin Getsuga Chougeki ((10 or more drinks) 236P+K)

    Restored Tenshin Getsuga Chougeki. The move is now performed with 236P+K.

    Choutentou (From Zabantetsu P)

    Changed the effect on hit, changed recovery on guard to +13 frames.

    Chubu Rakusenkyaku (From Zabantetsu K)

    Changed the recovery on guard from -8 to +3 frames.

    Za'inshu (From Zabantetsu P+K+G)

    Increased the drink points from 2 to 3.

    Konshin Saigeki ((6 or more drinks) From Oushin 6P+K+GPP)

    Konshin Saigeki can now also be performed with a P+K input, reduced the drink points required from 8 to 6.

    Ousou Sengeki (From Choukarou P)

    Changed the effect on hit, now allows follow ups of up to 17 frames from the front on counter hit.

    Ousou Gyou'in ((4 or more drinks) From Choukarou PP)

    Being hit by an attack while transitioning to Sokokukyu will now result in a recovery counter hit.

    Konshin Saigeki ((6 or more drinks) From Choukarou 6P+K+GPP)

    Konshin Saigeki can now also be performed with a P+K input, reduced the drink points required from 8 to 6.

    Kokukyu Toutetsu (From Soukokukyu K+G)

    Extended the low dodge frames up until the hitbox appears.

    Kasen Gyou'in (6P+K+G)

    Drink points are increased earlier.

    Kasen Gyou'in Hontentai (From Kasen Gyou'in K)

    Changed the effect on hit, now causes a small bound when hitting mid-air.

    Suiki Toshu ((6 or more drinks) From Kasen Gyou'in P+K)

    Suiki Toshu now requires 6 drink points to be performed. Changed the recovery on hit from +10 to +15 frames. Increased the drink points reduction from 1 to 2.

    Touku Soudoutai ((while rising) K)

    Changed the attack from a high attack to a mid attack.

    Haitou Richu ((opponent behind) P+G)

    Reduced the drink points required for Haitou Richu from 5 to 0.

    Koushu Gakusai Shugeki ((opponent behind) P+K+GPP (on hit)

    The required number of drink points to shift from Koushu Gakusai Shugeki to a hit throw was reduced from 10 to 0.

    Suiho Tenshinchu (P+G)

    Increased the drink points from 2 to 3.

    Tenshin Gyou'in Sousuimon (66P+G)

    Changed the damage from 40 to 45.

    Rengeki Tenshin Ousoushu (46P+G)

    Changed the damage from 50 to 55.

    Toushu Richu ((wall behind opponent) 4P+G)

    Changed the requirement from (high wall behind opponent) to (wall behind opponent). This move can now be performed on fences.

    Suibou Honshin ((half wall behind opponent) 46P+G)

    Changed the command to (half wall behind opponent) 46P+G, since it would overlap with Toushu Richu.
     
    b4k4 and Chill like this.
  2. Chill

    Chill +40 DP Content Manager Shun Gold Supporter

    PSN:
    Chill58
    I'm reading all of these changes and am smiling and nodding at every one.
     
    b4k4 likes this.
  3. Futaba

    Futaba Member

    PSN:
    OGC
    It should be noted that 1K+G no longer foot crumples on KO hit.
     
    Chill likes this.
  4. Chill

    Chill +40 DP Content Manager Shun Gold Supporter

    PSN:
    Chill58
    I've barely had time to play 2.0 but some quick testing found that [2][P][+][K][+][G] (to Zabantetsu) -> [P][+][K][+][G] (from Zabantetsu) x2 is feasible post-round for most 'standard' round endings (ie if Shun's last attack doesn't have a long recovery). So it looks like 6 drinks post-round will be 'standard'. Together with the other changes that makes Shun's drinking game a lot stronger.

    Also quickly tested [2][3][6][P][+][K] (+10 DP) (last seen in vanilla VF5 as [4][P][+][K]). The sabaki appears to be active from the 1st frame so like before it can be used to interrupt a [P][P][P] type string.
     
    b4k4, Razinoff and Combolammas like this.
  5. b4k4

    b4k4 Well-Known Member Content Manager Shun

    PSN:
    SoundReason
    I found some stuff. It looks like CH 2_3P, 2P, 6K+G now gives a bound against a number of cast members. KKP and KK2P are also good combo enders, even at 0 drinks, with the caveat that it only works with a microdash 1FK using 33.

    The KKP ender gives 83 damage, and the KK2P ender gives 80, IIRC. I haven't tested other enders much at higher drinks, but 236KPP is definitely more damage once available.

    Here's the list:

    CH 2_3P, 2P, 6K+G, 33 1FK, (KKP/KK2P) @ 0 Drinks:

    Yes (6K+G hits and bounds):
    Jean (KKP ender O, KK2P ender C)
    Sarah (KKP ender O, KK2P ender C)
    Lion (KKP ender O, KK whiffs in C)
    Vanessa (KKP ender O, KK2P ender C)
    Brad (KKP ender O/C)

    No (6K+G whiffs):
    Pai
    Eileen
    El Blaze
    Aoi
    Shun Di
    Lau
    Lei Fei
    Kage
    Goh
    Akira
    Jacky
    Wolf
    Jeffry * - 6K+G hits but does not bound.
    Taka
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2025
    Chill likes this.
  6. b4k4

    b4k4 Well-Known Member Content Manager Shun

    PSN:
    SoundReason
    Since 1K's initial damage got nerfed, I wanted to figure out the drink breakpoints for it to beat common P / 2P damage values, since we'll be losing those exchanges a lot more than we used to now.

    1K will beat moves with the listed damage value at the following drink break points:

    8 dmg - 0 drinks (e.g. Shun Di 2P)
    9 dmg - 16 drinks (e.g. Lion 2P, P)
    10 dmg - 32 drinks (e.g. Akira P)

    Edit: Wanted to add that in the case that two moves arrive on the same frame, the one with slower execution wins, which is why 1K (8 dmg) will beat Shun Di's 2P (also 8 dmg) - 1K has a 17f startup, but 2P is 12f.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2025
    Chill likes this.
  7. Chill

    Chill +40 DP Content Manager Shun Gold Supporter

    PSN:
    Chill58
    As seen in the initial 2.0 trailer, (from Kasen Gyou'in) [K] can cause a light bound knockdown.

    I did some combo testing and found the below options. The combos work on middleweights and lightweights in both open and closed stance; And in closed stance only for Akira and heavyweights (maybe this will change with the hitbox change in the upcoming patch...).

    These combos are now the most damaging options after [8][K][+][G] (or from BT Sōkokukyū), and you gain a drink while doing them! Shun's drinking game in 2.0 is truly another level...

    From 0 DP:

    [8][K][+][G], [6][P][+][K][+][G] (from Kasen Gyou'in) [K], [6][P][P] (64 dmg)
    [8][K][+][G], [6][P][+][K][+][G] (from Kasen Gyou'in) [K], [K][K][P] (72 dmg)

    From +5DP:

    [8][K][+][G], [6][P][+][K][+][G] (from Kasen Gyou'in) [K], [2][3][6][K][P][P] (73 dmg)

    From +5DP (LWs only):

    [8][K][+][G], [6][P][+][K][+][G] (from Kasen Gyou'in) [K], [P], [4][3][P][+][K],[P] (74 dmg)
     
    b4k4 likes this.
  8. b4k4

    b4k4 Well-Known Member Content Manager Shun

    PSN:
    SoundReason
    Yeah, I've been using these too! Very nice to have strong combos available off of 8K+G (and similar) launchers, even with 0 drinks now.

    Also, @Chill , I've been testing out some 426P+G combos with interesting results. It appears that, with appropriate use of 1FKs, you can guarantee a 6K+G bound against most of the cast up to MW, so excluding HW (except at unrealistic drink levels), and Taka. However, some are highly character specific, and they can be a little volatile depending on drink levels.

    I should mention that, as far as I can tell, these work irrespective of whether the opponent stands or crouches to turn around. I've been testing literally all permutations of opponent behaviour after the 426P+G throw to verify that these combos are "stable" (e.g. work regardless of opponent behaviour post throw). The only thing I'm not sure of is whether the training mode settings in game are accurately replicating human behaviour under similar conditions. Also, I believe some characters can use BT stance transitions to interfere with the combo routes, but I haven't explored that much yet.

    Here's a sample of what I mean, with the caveat that these probably require further testing, and there are some permutations I've yet to fully test on the cast. All of these assume a 426P+G starter, and if a 1FK precedes a P then it should be executed as 33, otherwise 66 is fine...:

    upload_2025-1-17_11-58-12.png

    Edit: Oh yeah, an entry of "N" means "NO", as in I've tested the combo and it doesn't work. I built this spreadsheet for tracking my combo testing, but once I started getting into the depths of testing this 426P+G stuff, I realized the format is probably inadequate because of how many different symbols I was starting to require in my notes! :p
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2025
    Chill likes this.
  9. Chill

    Chill +40 DP Content Manager Shun Gold Supporter

    PSN:
    Chill58
    Interesting stuff! It's been a long while since I tested [4][1][2][3][6][P][+][G] combos, I remember it could also depends if the opponent guards after the throw as that initiates a turn-around.

    If you happen to find any good Taka combos let us know, I was hoping with 2.0 that Shun would get some better combo routes against Taka but I haven't found any yet.
     

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