Adaptive Akira

First off, let's makes sure we're talking about low and mid rising attacks. Wake-up is too general of a term (opponent can TR into an attack - which also can count as wake-up - even though it isn't (technically) a rising attack).

I only use KNEE to break the rising attack. I only attempt it after I use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif->/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif because I sort-of know the timing. In that situation I wait to see movement and then execute KNEE. It crushes low and mid risers. It's still risky because a delayed rising attack would make me miss as far as I know.

You could try to use DFS to break the riser and you'd have to start at a different time. Quickest execution does less damage than the KNEE (so it's not quite as feckin' hard-hitting as you think /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif ).

Problems with breaking rising attacks: Timing is super-strict. If I fuck up the KNEE execution I get either /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif or just /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (neither will break a rising attack). Other breakers (Yoho, sidekick) execute differently so the timing is different, too.

Rising attack breaking is flashy, no doubt. The risk is too high in most cases.


So - here's hope for lovers of DFS: Use it to smack people that TR. If they TR and dodge the wrong way, they get hit. If you time the DFS perfectly, they have to block or they get hit. You're only -4 if they block. If you hit them and they don't TR/QR, you have the possibility to connect an AS3 depending on how and where they land.

Hitting someone after they TR is much easier than breaking a riser. With TR, you have advantage so your window is bigger, you just have to hit first no matter what opponent uses out of TR. To break a riser, the window is super-small, you must hit at the same time the riser would hit you, and the damage must be 21+.


In the end - breaking a riser with Akira's KNEE or Yoho is fucking awesome - the float is super high and it just looks insanely painful *BLAM!* Plus you get a combo (no combo possible with DFS).

If you want to master it, go for it. Your time might be better spent on fundamentals - hard to say - it's really up to you.

 

About crushing rising attacks, one thing that hasnt been mentioned yet, the number of active hitframes. In order to crush a rising attack the active frames of your attack must coincide with the active frames of the rising attack, and your attack has to do 21 damage or more. The active frames are nowadays listed in the movelists, great stuff Myke and whoever put them there /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

In this sense, the more active frames does your attack have, the greater chance it has to hit the right window and crush the opponent rising attack. Using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif might be an idea because of this, since it has second most active frames (4) out of Akiras attacks (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif has 5 for some reason) and we all know how much damage Akira will do when that baby hits with counterhit /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Also, should it be blocked for some reason, Akira still has advantage on block. If opponent rising attack hits, its not usually end of the world. I havent used StDbPm in wakeup yet, but I think im gonna try soon.. This thread got me thinking hehe.

ps. Akiras knee is still the ballsiest launcher in the game /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

 

Yeah, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is the shit especially against mid rising kick.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, followed by /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif delayed down attack puts them in a very good position for this. To newer Akira players, you must always do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif throw because it turns the opponent's body to an awkward angle which allows you to backdash away from ALL rising kicks. From there you can threaten with things like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and throws.

 

Or people can learn how to step and get away from all rising kicks even after more difficult situation like P+G /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
(ps. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif is usually enough)

I hate to admit that I usually do that FAR too much, I reallý need to train crushing rising attacks more. >_>

 

To the guy who said /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif on whiffed rising...try yoho!

 

Some new adaptive discoveries I've made that seem quite teh sex0rs...

The Yoho wakeup/techroll kick crush I find quite ineffective for my own timing abilities. However, the Renkentai [double hop kicks? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif ] can actually WHIFF the first kick, enemy uses a 'wakeup low sweep' and the 2nd kick clobbers them...

Since Renkentai works better for me, I'll simply stick to it for crushing.

Something else I found vs. people who attack out of disadvantage... [the best 60%+ hp bar punish I've ever seen]

If I see my foe leaves an opening to a whiffed attack, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif can force a sideturned ebil situation. On CH, this can get very ugly. Should the foe attack using anything, I use his body check @ fastest timing - /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif causing side crumple. For maximum damage I think... follow up with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif.

Is there more damage that can be done from a side crumple caused by body check?

 

This is a great tactic. I never thought of using those moves together but it works great. The body check will crumble them on a normal hit to the side so it's so nasty to use there. Body check mix up with throws is just deadly! GREAT POST!!!

 

actually 3k is better for side crumpling in that situation. A blocked 466p+k gets you owned in the most horrible ways. 66kk isnt exactly a reliable way to punish someone for waking up. Offensive step K is a much better option because it puts them into a crumple and you can proceed to combo. Not knocking your tactics because they work for you. But im just letting you know that there are better options then the ones your currently using

 

BUT... They have to attack and get countered for the side kick to crumble. You're just regurgitating the black book stuff anyway. Everyone who has read it knows about following with a side kick, he says it right in there. The body check is different because it crumbles even on a normal hit so yeah it might backfire but what big move can't? If you try to Yoho and it gets blocked you get hurt too, does that mean you won't go for it? There's always a risk/reward ratio with big moves. Also, OM K isn't the best way to crush rising attacks either, why not 214P??? That does even better damage and has 4 active frames. There's so many better options than OM K, that's too generic.

 

You make a good point about body check side-crumple on normal hit. I didn't know that.

I also learned about 214P rising attack crusher in this thread.

No need to beat on Chibiaya so hard: "Regurgitating Black Book," and "too generic," so chiding. He was even democratic in his post: "Not knocking your tactics because they work for you."

Please be civil. This thread rocks.

 

Fair enough, my bad. I just felt like he was trying to poo poo the idea as being stupid when it's actually REALLY POWERFUL. I'm thinking that may be one of the reasons the body check does crumple on a side hit. It may be intended for use after 46PKG...

Further, if you use that mix-up. They have to block to protect from the crumple no matter what and then they can be thrown. It's a way of creating a 50-50 when you probably couldn't normally. Using the side kick for instance, they have many more options to get out of the setup cause they don't have to block necessarily, with the body check it's either get crumpled or get thrown. It's a really good idea. And regardless, that IS straight out of the black book so what I said is a true statement, maybe not worded in the best way but still true.

I've been practicing with this mix-up and it really is NASTY hands down.

 

If i thought it was a bad idea, i would have stated it was a bad idea. Try not to jump to conclusions please /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

I'm not sure in a real fight but in dojo practice it is proven that the body check is half circular. They HAVE to dodge the right way if they tried it. The mid-kick is linear... I've had the computer in quest mode dodge during a side-turned situation.

Quite nutty, I'm assuming a person could do the same.

This is the 'adaptive' Akira thread. If you find that your foe has blocked your initial attempt at the side-bodycheck, then obviously, throwing them the next time you try it is your best bet, hence the thread title...

Has anyone found a more damaging follow through for the side crumple from the body check?

I didn't see it in the black book but there is a 0-frame throw from his pull in that Konjou showed me. I'm trying to perfect it but it's nasty hard, even with stick buffering. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif , /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and then you dash in at fastest timing and let loose with any of his throws. Ideally, it's either his TFT or his Shin'iha. However, since they're both broken with forward throw, using other attacks, even neutral throw, might be better vs. the higher level foes.

Before I forget, I haven't perfected it yet, but I DO want to... the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif hammer move can crush either wakeup kick. In that instance, going for the side bodycheck is like, paramount...

One last question, does anyone know if Akira has a 90% hp combo? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif

 

This is VERY interesting. Thanks for posting.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
One last question, does anyone know if Akira has a 90% hp combo? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif </div></div>
Uh, nobody has afaik..

 

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is my favorite combo now. Thank you so much for posting this. Most fun combo to do some one ever!!!

 

LOL. I would certainly wish this is a combo too.

 

I've also tested this string and it's really great!
Thank you very much for posting.

I've not really understood what you are saying above about a 0-fream throw ?!?

 

0-frame throw is a VF5 feature. If opponent is considered to be in 'neutral' state, throw will come out in 0 frames, ie. instantly. Otherwise throw speed is now 12 frames.

Check out VFwiki entry on it:
http://virtuafighter.com/wiki/doku.php?id=vf5:system_part_2#zero_frame_throw

 

He's right in that it's not a combo, if it WAS a combo, it'd probably be penalized with massive damage scaling...

It'll work on people who don't know that you're supposed to BLOCK Akira in bad situations. Either eat a 70 damage TFT without fuzzy guarding as a defense, or lose 50% of your hp cause you 'think' you can hit Akira, but you can't, cause Akira >>> anyone in a disadvantaged situation... especially side/back turned

 

Here's an interesting question I should'a asked as part of the topic.

How long do you think it takes you to learn an opponent's mannerisms in combat? Can you overcome your foe consistently after you have done this?

I believe it takes me about 3-5 games losing consistently to figure out a REALLY skilled foe's tactics. If they're not fighting to their full potential, then I really wouldn't know till I start winning several games in a row and THEN they turn up the heat so to speak.

I can usually beat anybody once I've gotten a wrench on an opponents mindset as Akira. In Ranked Matches, this is bad since you really only have 2 rounds to quickly ascertain what your foe is and isn't capable of doing. I'd like to get good enough as to read my foe perfectly after 1 round. It's not impossible, of this I am certain.

Your thoughts?