Apparently Jeffry is just a weak-ass joke

Like ice-9 said, maybe Jeff and Shun just aren't for you. I wouldn't say that they're "weak-ass jokes" though. It may be difficult for you, but out there are 80% Jeffs, Shuns, Gohs (well, Arashi is the only one I know), and Aois (the highest Brad I've seen is 76%, which is still good). And also, keep in mind that these guys are winning in Akira, Jacky, Lau, and Kage-ridden arcades, some arcades which hold 80% users of these characters /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

And there are also more videos up with Jeff. It's not against one of the "top-tier" characters, but in Creeds movie of the week thread there's a vid called Ikyuu_Jeffrey_vs_Tokyo_Megane_Vanessa, which actually is two fights. Vanessa gets her revenge in the second fight, but the first fight is an absolute massacre in Jeffreys favor. There's another match with Ikyuu_Jeffrey, but against Pai (who many consider a "top tier" character). He loses, but the fight is very close and could've gone either way.

Also check out the Jeff matches in the ACT movie thread. One is with Jeff beating down a much more experienced 80% Lau. I'm just trying to show you that Jeff isn't as bad as you think. Really, any character can be a serious threat, it's just that some are threats more often than others. There's some great Shun usage in the recent tournament. The players didn't win the tourney, but some Shuns put up a very good fight against good players using "top tiers".

I hope the vids show you he's not bad at all, and spark some creativity into your Jeff usage. Also, the cpu opponent isn't half as good as a living breathing opponent. There are many setups that work on humans pretty well, but the cpu just isn't programmed to fall for.

 

Well a bit off topic, but I think a good evo Jeffrey FAQ would be awesome, I started lookin into and the only one on the site is ice-9's vf4 ver. B
I am no expert with any char let alone Jeff, so though i wish I could write it, if I did it wouldn't be worth shit. For those here that are Jeff players it would be nice for someone who is new to the site, and plays evo Jeff to get some good strats, flows, setups etc. and I am sure all the other Jeffs would love more insights too!
Just an idea and I really hope someone takes it up!
Lookin forward to it. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

People tend to talk more about talking because threads like this one are popping up left and right on VFDC moreso than threads actually about useful informations. Most questions about the game have already been answered in previous threads and posts so that new posts are usually just some opinion based rant or thought.
I reread the very first post in this thread and I fail to see any statement or attempt to inquire about Jeffery tactics or advice. AEON even admitted himself it was just a rant. I simply don't understand how is anyone supposed to infer from his rant to give useful comments instead of taking the troll bait. If he had simply said what you said in your post "So...who disagrees and why?" then he would have signified his post as something useful. The fact that he only said he meant it to be that way after multiple flame-like responses tells me that intent was just made up to save face. All I was trying to point out is that to get useful information, it has to have the appearance of an useful question. A rant is not a question. It's clear to see that none of the known Jeffery players like Jedi Fei have responded to this thread, what does that tell you?

Isn't it clear that AEON also agrees with the fact that how good a character is is dependent on the player as well? I simply don't understand then why he regards that statement in his later post that it is a fanboy reaction? No one responded with hostility, he made it out to be that way, which just tells me that everything he said about being open minded are just a complete BS perspective that he later took to appear that way.

/versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Scratch that.

You failed to see what i was saying, that's fine. Change the freakin' record, okay? I mean, you missed it, just like most people in this thread did. That's okay. You're okay. So why don't we all move on?

"Please, let's do!!!"

Good. Glad you're on board. Now, with respect to Jeff vids: i've seen some fairly phenomenal Jeff play, but most of it seems centered around landing +, then ,, and playing the wakeup game, or crouch dashing like crazy and landing XPD. Jeff, unlike other characters, needs lots of yomi to win, as opposed to win by sheer nature of 'the poke' or the c'onstant pressure'. Jeff isn't fast enough to pressure. So he plays a different game. Anyone care to discuss what that may be? Or are we gonna spend the next 3 pages arguing the virtue of thread titles?

 

Centered around ++? It's a decent move, but the Jeff's I've seen aren't centered around it. You are right about one thing, he does lack the large number of pokes that other characters have. This is my personal take on Jeff, for whatever it's worth. I've only played Evo once, but it was against human opponents at least /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

Jeff, more so than any other character, requires that they player be a bit of a psychic. Because most of his attacks are so slow, you MUST think way in advance, poking around until you think you can land a big blow before the opponent does (really, everyone is played this way, but Jeff is this style to the extreme).

Best pokes are (duh) , +, +, and for hitting low, the chargeable + (don't use that one too often.It's not the safest but I think it's quicker than ++). Like every other character you should go for the MC. Off of MC you've got the attack-throw guessing game. A lot of people are afraid to get combo-ed by Jeff, so off of an MC they will start to guard. Because you countered their attack, they likely won't be thinking of throw escapes since their mindset must now go from offense to defense. Practice into one of your main 3 throws, just to be safe in the event that they do throw escape.

Threat stance is a gem. If you think they'll react quickly and try to knock you out of it, hit for an MC crumple, then either +,, ground attack, or go for ground pick up into throw (works a lot of the time). If you know that they'll block (like after you hit them against the wall), hit , ++ for automatic damage. + works best against the wall imo. It causes an automatic struggle situation where you can set up a guessing game.

The big moves I try to land don't really involve ++. I go for the knee, or + since they give the best juggle opportunities on MC, but anything's game. From long range + (most are tempted by +, but it leaves to much of a disadvantage for me). I also like to backdash just out of opponents attacking range when I anticipate an attack, then hit 'em with +,. Chargeable + is great, uncharged it's pretty quick, my favorite low attack to keep them guessing. + is still a great retaliation move, though the range is definitely shorter for it. Because of that, use it with caution.

And that concludes the stuff that I'm certain about, and use in my Jeff game. After watching some videos, I see that the best Jeffs are the bold ones. They try high-risk moves with alarming regularity, but I guess they have a good feel of when an opponent is going to attack. For instance, I've seen a lot of +. The reward is very good, but I never do that move. In the vids the move is actually landed after a techroll, and against good opponents, so it does become useful. There is another move, which I don't know how to do. Jeff spins while ducking high moves, and unleashes a double fisted uppercut. Looks good for when you're opponent may attack high. But like many other moves, it's pretty slow. Oh, and in some vids I see usage of ++, which discourages guarding (helps out in getting more MCs), but use only when you think you're opponent is defintely going to guard.

Every character must be psychic really, but because most of Jeff's attacks are very slow, you really have to be better than Ms. Cleo to do well with him. I don't think he's weak at all. It's just that once they're on to your timing, you opponent can really mess you up. That's what Jeff is really all about; timing and predicting. Other characters have enough quick moves where they can set a trap and bait you in. With Jeff, you have to muscle your way to victory. I would write more, but this isn't a faq, and I'm sleepy.

I don't claim to be an expert. I'm a novice vf player. I'm only writing this as a guy who loves to use Jeff. He's my #1 character, Lion coming second. I can understand the frustrations; I've been through them at times. But nevertheless he's still my favorite, and I love kicking people's ass with him. Of course, these tactics rarely work on the cpu...it just knows when you try to land these strategies. People are less suspecting, and can be set up to get beaten up.

 

If you can't watch the difference between MC punch and normal hit punch and react quickly, forget about Jeffrey. Come back after you get more accustom to the game's flow.

Jeffry is slow? His punch is just 1 fr slower, his short knee is as fast as anyone's elbow class. His knee is the same speed as anyone else's knee. The problem is, if you can't tell the difference between hit/counter hit after you low p someone, all (every character) knee will be interrupt by a punch if the situation is only a normal hit.

Now. Have you completed the challenge in training mode? if not you should forget about jeffry too. Atleast get accustom to punishing oppt doing evade TEG(computer evade a lot fairly predictably).

Seriously if you don't like doing as your main weapon, or you need some flashier movelist, pick someone else first. Jeffry is not hard, he has the simplest flowchart among all the characters. But the the most important requirement is that you can watch your hits well. (If you find yourself Kneeing after low p blocked, pick someone else (like Lau /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif )

 

That's just it. I refuse to believe that and are his main weapons. I think that if you look at the way this characer was designed, it was to play a more defensive game with lots of movement. I might be stretching here, but i don't think Jeff is meant to stay in one place, dodge here and there and until he scores an interrupt and then launch a combo. That works, yes, but it seems to me this works a lot better with other characters like Pai or Lau. BTW, i've done VF4 character training, and i'm talking mostly about Evo Jeff, who is a different character altogether from Ver.C Jeff. At least it seems that way.

What i'm trying to get at is that there may be another way to play him. I think the whole philosophy going into Jeff - his "character concept", if you will - in Evo isn't really "score a lot of MC with or , but to score some MC and lots of mC using dashes and so forth to begin the commands for his moves. He seems lots more agile in Evo (only in that his moves seem to execute much faster and some even have better recovery). For example, to emphasize more the knee combo, i think was removed so that the player can effectively dash backward from an opponent's attack and launch knee for mC and perform those knee combos. Also, Evo threat stance looks like it backs away more than it did in Ver.C. I might be imagining this part, though. Hell, i might be imagining this whole thing.

But you can see that he's supposed to be real agile, even in the new victory poses, where he's doing handstand pushups and so forth. Again, i might be way off base here... But i've had lots of success with dash backward, then (headbutt) and similar stuff. And using moves that naturally avoid attacks (he's got more than a couple). Seriously: count how many moves Jeff has that avoid attacks or have a built in dodge. I guess i'm playing a sort of "counterattack" Jeff. I don't know how well this would stack up against high level human opponents, but i'm kicking the CPU's ass right now. Requires some conditiong and yomi, but it works, and without really abusing and .

 

Afro: you might want to start using more. Sidekick is great... if it connects. If not, you're looking at throw or combo guaranteed (from faster characters). is uncounterable if blocked, i think. If nothing's changed from Ver.C, it's -2 on block. Just takes forever to execute. Personally, from long range, i like running attacks. Don't know why, but they seem to connec really well.

 

I believe jeffry's game is intended by the designers to be based around the concept of the scary-canned-combo. Wolf has almost no canned combos and they usually aren't the kind of combos that knock down and slam or give big frame advantage from the second hit. Jeffry has several canned combos and they're just scary enough to make the opponent fear the second hit, which gives jeffry the psychological edge he needs to throw them.

It sounds simple and kind of stupid, but you can be halfway successful with jeffry doing stuff like:
f,f+P --> throw (opponent fears the canned uppercut)
b,df+P --> knee (opponent tried to dodge the second irreversible hit)
df+P --> throw (opponent fears the small but damaging float from the second uppercut)

There are new tools that follow this theme as well, like canned threat stance combos, a high-mid PP combo, and P+K,P.

Jeffry also has moves that give him frame advantage, and with that frame advantage he can force mid-or-throw guessing games... but honestly, you can get frame advantage from a slow and somewhat crappy attack like db+P+K (or whatever forces a crouch)... or you can get just as much frame advantage from a quick and safe move like P.

 

Creed's post about Jeffry's nitaku capability is the closest to how I think he should be played, but there is one thing I disagree with:

[ QUOTE ]
Jeffry also has moves that give him frame advantage, and with that frame advantage he can force mid-or-throw guessing games...

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Jeffry unfortunately is the opposite--he has very few moves that give him advantage on block. In fact, might be his only useful one. And even if Creed meant advantage on hit (which is not a big deal), quite a few of Jeffry's moves similarly leaves him at disadvantage on normal hit.

So while he has a few key fast moves (shot knee, basically), because of poor recovery and because he doesn't have much to maintain an offensive flow like Vanessa or Brad, he must be played big risk, big reward in nitaku guessing games.

Oh yeah, rocks hard.

 

figures the dude has the a CHARGE attack that's guardable in the first place.

 

Cool, I didn't know about the non-charged version still giving advantage on block. I guess that would somewhat compensate the slow (and standing) execution.

Although, it always felt like a disadvantage for the non-charged version. I just checked out 1/60 and I think it agrees, but the stats for the move are in gray (I'm not sure what that means...maybe stats for ver. A).

 

Aii, that's pretty ugly then...

 

[ QUOTE ]
Myke said:

Sorry, I made a mistake. Only the fully charged version is +2 on guard. The non-charged is -14 (elbow counterable), and any-charge (except max) is -3.


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Eek...that's disgusting. Looks like I'm going to have to use that one less. What's the frame adv./disadv. for the ++ on block?

 

speaking of which, ff+K gives Jeffry advantage on block, not disadvantage as someone said. I can't find the link to 1/60th right now, but for version A it was +2 I think (maybe +1).

has anyone mentioned what a great move b, f+P is? Special High (beats low attacks), half circular, uncounterable, and head KD's for KKP. If you time it right, you can even crush some rising attacks with this move. Oh, and d/f+K+G is also the shit, uncounterable leg flop.

Spotlite

 

I honestly didn't know that. I assumed that because it was slower and hit harder it gave a frame disadvantage. That's my bad guys.

I still kinda prefer the + when at a longer range though, because it's quicker, and "seems" harder to counter when you're in long range. Of course, I'm always open to correction guys.

[ QUOTE ]
has anyone mentioned what a great move b, f+P is? Special High (beats low attacks), half circular, uncounterable, and head KD's for KKP. If you time it right, you can even crush some rising attacks with this move. Oh, and d/f+K+G is also the shit, uncounterable leg flop.


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You must be talking about version C. I'm sorry, I thought this discussion was on evo /versus/images/graemlins/blush.gif.

 

b,f+p is lowelljeff's favorite move. it gives a free facedown pickup, so if jeff's back to the ring and he tries to escape d/f to avoid ringout, you can hit him with this and try for a pickup ringout (non-escapeable in 4, 50/50 in evo). Also kkp does great damage (misses on lights?). Aside from the fact you can duck this, it also comes out slow also. It's great against dodges, but if he attacks high or mid (even at mid disadvantage) jeff loses. for example, jeff blocks akira's riser, jeff does b,f+p, akira does spod, jeff loses. never the less it's a superb move. getting ringout from pickup Sucks /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif ohya like sl says.. uncounterable, a rarity for jeff.

 

Afro: works pretty much the same in evo as it did in version C. Because it is slow, you do have to use it carefully. You can use it after a pick up, or +, because opponents rarely attack in that situation and instead dodge and throw escape, although a quick move might win against it. if the opponent dodges (with or without throw escapes) to the wrong side or throw escapes without dodging, it will hit. This also works after + guard stagger or hit.

Like ice-9 said, is another great move since it is Jeffry's only full circular move, is not too slow at 17 frames, and is uncounterable if blocked. Is anything guaranteed on MC - , ? Too bad it's high.