How good are top online players compared to the best japanese players?

People hung with him in casuals after the event. He still won, but the longer people fought him the less easy it became for him to win. You can probably guess who those players were though. If people could play him every day you'd see a ton of lvling up happen.

Oh well. . .

 

Another thing to consider is what happens when someone from the US (for example) plays online with a player from Japan. The Japanese player is probably used to an amazing connection and is playing an online metagame that reflects that. Then when they play against a player in North America, they are suddenly playing a very different online metagame because the connection is most likely umm... "not good." American player will probably win in this environment and proclaim himself the Japanese player killer

Go fig...

 

There are a few subtle differences between Japanese players and American players.

1) Japanese players have a higher competitive scene to practice higher levels of yomi, thus the americans are very straight forward in their approach due to lack of this type of competition.

2) Japanese players have every stance specific combo/wall combo down in their heads like robots, MAX damage all the time unless they are setting something up.

3) Japanese players do not play with as much ego and made up rules as americans, thus going higher in their skill level.

4) The japanese players knowledge on moves goes beyond frames, yes they know frames. They also use many tactics with stance and move priority that americans do not think about in flow charts. Thus creating more variations to attack you with and win.

---I'm not going to even comment on online versus offline play cause, vf online vs offline is like comparing Smash brothers Melee to Streetfighter IV.....

 

I disagree with most of what you wrote to various degrees, but I only want to ask you about this..

You mean online vs offline is like comparing Brawl to Melee, right? Your simile doesn't make any sense. Maybe you got the games mixed up.

 

So true! Very few of us explore outside of the box.

 

There's probably a handful of North american players that know what i'm talking about. It's one thing to know everything about VF, it's another to play free and creative and still maintain a deadly level of aggressiveness that leaves your opponent speechless.

 

It's very difficult to play "free" and "creative" when the only opponents you have are the online ranked button mashers/DCers/spammers.

There is no way to develop a Yomi meta game against the sheer randomness and ignorance of many opponents online. The only thing that most of us without a thriving arcade/local scene in the western world will ever really be able to do is practice combos over and over and over again.

Any yomi strategies are defeated by randomness. Any frame tight, moral play is defeated by online lag. It's frustrating as all hell, but it's all we have at the moment...

 

Toydingo distinguishing who you are fighting is what the first two rounds are for . You must adapt. It's the bad players that help you with this area of gameplay. It's why the really good players never lose to randomness

 

While I don't think I'm a stronger player than Itazan or Fuudo, I wouldn't put too much stock in my set against Fuudo in the grand finals of Sega Cup. I played poorly in every grand final that week (I was in all of them, and lost all of them) and just think I have a mental block about them. I don't get nervous in tournaments but by the time I make it to grand finals I'm almost too comfy and don't play very well.

But, I guess it is good I've recognized this problem so it wont happen again!

 

I feel you. Its annoying when you want to play by the book and your opponent is just random and abare 24/7.

 

So you're the MIke Ross of VF, except that you get 2nd instead of 4th?

 

I think there's a good way to play "random" and a bad way to play "random." What you are describing to me sounds like the bad way...

If it's the bad way, then the usual strategy is to "outplay" them. By that, I mean play a safer game and punish what you can. I understand we are talking about online, and this can sometimes be easier said than done if we're talking about frame-tight punishment and control. But usually a broad form of control is what you need--a broad form of spacing control, using tight and safe moves/pokes/launchers--keep your arsenal safe and less committing and catch your opponent if they randomly do risky stuff.

If they are doing lots of abare, then use less throws and more safe-launcher (and with online, again, don't play frame-tight, imagine your advantage situations are smaller and your disadvantage situations are worse).

If it's the good type of "random" then try to reduce their chances of 50/50s (so again, play less committing as much as possible) and really learn to spot when a situation goes nitaku whether on your side or theirs and control the frequency of those.

Even though I don't play online all that much, I have played it enough to see many many levels of play. Personally, I have never felt I lost to "purely random" players. I have lost to very good players who can mix up and very good players who are very deliberate at setting up 50/50 situations and randomly using the options in those situations. But I don't think I can describe anyone I've lost to as being purely random. Even on the worst connections, if I lost, it were to players who were very deliberate and had a plan.

I have definitely lost a situation to bad lag, but I don't think I've lost any match (laggy or non-laggy) to someone without a plan.

 

Poppy cock! I'm mediocre at best, and on rare occasions just for fun, I've played and beat some top jp players, lost mostly, but on occasion I won. They seemed to freeze up when faced with unorthodox play. In one special case the jp player was here in the U.S as a guest of my nephew who was stationed in jp during his last navy run. I lost to this player 10 times offline and won 4 times!!!!! Of course he was limited because I only had one stick (which I used ) and he to play with the pad LOL, but still, he should have kicked my ass 14 straight games and he didn't. Yes there were rounds that he game me (not denying that) but there were many rounds when I took it to him and he just couldn't believe it. I promised I would not mention any names so I won't, but he knows who he is and I know who he is LOL.

IMO there are several top players in the west that could not only hang with many top JP players, but consistently beat them. If I could get a P+K in every now and then, and I'm old and tired, I know some of real players on PSN could do some damage!

Yes, Yes, the Japanese players on average are better than players from other countries on average. But I would put our best up against their best. I don't know about XBL, but there are some FN monster players on PSN who have played VF from VF 2 or 3 and who have no idea what VFDC even is! just because they don't happen to run in our circles, don't mean they aren't out there. I've just experienced this so many times. Stumbling across pockets of unknown FN awesome VF players who grew up playing in their own small communities, anonymously growing,kicking ass, and drinking VF like it is water.


On any given day, anybody can be served a loss, even the best JP players can be beat. Especially if the old monk had his way a few times with a top player.

 

I'm not saying that the online warriors aren't beatable. Far from it. Many of them, although quite random, fall back onto the same 2 moves they know over and over. Easy reads.

What I'm saying is that that is the main, if not the only, source of training and development that 99% of the Western players are ever going to get. And with that it will be almost impossible to develop a knowledge of the game that could rival the best JP players.

Maybe I'm being far too pessimistic. I would like to one day be able to sit down next to Fuudo or Chibita or whomever and put up a good fight. Yet I fear that if my only training partners are the random Jackys online trying to flip-kick to glory, that'll never happen...

 

LOL flip-kick to glory... yep there's a ring of truth to that.

I've said this before, and I get flamed most of the time I repeat it, but I'll post it again:

I actually get more diversified competition from:


Special sparring sessions in VF5FS single player
License challenges in VF5FS

than I do from online (regardless to the level of the online player).

Most of the online players have a handful of combos that they rely on: if they can get them off they win, if they can't they lose.

The AI in the special sparring sessions have certain spams that they start out with but if you jam them they will switch styles. IMO the AI in the special sparring sessions when set to very hard, are very good training partners. better than the average online-warrior.

When I change my game up, they seem to change up as well. prior to going online, I'll do about a half hour of special sparring, once I'm get online the average player looks very simple in comparison. (maybe its just me). But I am on record for saying that
I would rather have a dynamic , adaptable AI offline, than a thousand mediocre online players.

I dislike the repetitive play that I face online. Players so worried about losing that they don't relax , have fun and play the game.

Special sparring allows you to get a good feeling for the game IMO

 

Rockets fired

 

I'll say it's a bit different playing people in casuals as opposed to in a tournament.

One time very long ago, I beat one of the top 3rd Strike players in Australia in casuals because he ate a silly Super. I asked him why he ate it instead of just blocking and punishing(would have been my loss), and he said "I could have blocked it, but I wanted to practise the parry."

Many good players will experiment in casuals, because they're not just looking to win, but they're looking to improve. They don't mind if they lose to some unknown guy because they'll have learnt something, and if you don't learn something either, you'll never beat them again.

 

I can play in both online and offline with different people and I do. Everyone has their own style and everyone is beatable. Instead of comparing just continue to improve without comparing.

 

You mean, "Rockets Discharged!"