Lag Sucks

Thank you... I couldn't have said it better. The only reason I mentioned my winning streak X is because when you were winning 5-6 in a row lag wasn't an issue and if it was why didn't you leave? Honestly it upsets me that people still complain about lag. I play against KingofVF4 and we have lag spikes all the time, but neither one of us mind because we gotten past the lag excuse and just try to make the best of our session. I'm sure just as much as I'm thinking " fuck I wouldn't have missed that if we had a better connection. " he is thinking exactly the same. Yet we never complain about it to each other. We just play! Some days he owns me and some days I own him, but who cares. We are having fun!

It's not about who beats who the most X. It's simple about enjoying the game and exploring as many options as possible. When I play against you that doesn't exist which is why I say our matches are dull and boring. You think because you cripple the game down to just PPP spams and you win you are good. Sorry you are not.

There is a particular science about VF that doesn't exist in any other game and when you understand that science it doesn't matter if you win or lose because the matches are enjoyable. As long as you understand the science even when the game breaks down to a simple chess match of or it's still fun. Why? It's because each player understands what's going on and why the things that are happening is happening. When you get to that point you will know what I'm talking about and you will see just how of this game you have yet to explore.

The reason me and you don't get along is because when we first started playing you constantly asked me to comment on your game and help you get better. We would have long XBL message sessions and I would break down your game for you and even gave you step by step details on how I think you should improve. I'm assuming because you were winning against me you saw my advice as excuses for you to change your game in a way where I could win more. Sorry that was not the case. You were winning because I didn't care to try because you just didn't understand VF. I only came to your invites because I wanted you to get better because in the end I would get better. Talking about this reminds me of talks I used to have with Jhow. He came to me a few time to ask how to get better and in some ways I'm responsible for the monster Shun he has developed. Honestly I wish I never taught the fucker about drink management lol.

The difference between Jhow and you or any person who has asked someone on this board for help is that they listened, researched, applied and saw results. You did nothing for 5 years, but spoke like you knew it all yet you didn't even no that no character with the exception of Vanessa's DS stance can cut in between by elbow. In 5 years you should have known that it's impossible.

Look man you came to me for help like so many others and I provided it, but after countless sessions and you showing no sign of improvement I just gave up because no matter how much I tried to help you you saw my advice as excuses for why I couldn't win against you. Maybe it's all a misunderstanding, but the way you used to talk to me via XBL messages plus the fact you acted like you were very knowledgeable and you weren't just eventually rubbed me the wrong way. I just couldn't take anymore of your bullshit.

I'm a nice guy, but even I have a limit.

 

I hate to nitpick here but VF5 has not been out for 5 years on console. Its just been over 4 years, less if you count the X360 version.

Eileen and everyone else except Lion's is 12f. Lion's is one frame slower.

 

Ok look Konjou, putting aside the issue of my not knowing elbow doesn't beat on block, which you're right, I should have known, none of your complaints were really valid. You basically pointed out a bunch of stuff related to things that I told you I already know, but had difficulty excecuting in lag. You also ignore me when I tell you that if I could actually do things like hit check properly, or fuzzy guard, or pretty much anything involved in actually playing the game correctly, I could do so much more. You know why you kept getting counter hits on me with ? It's because I literally could not wait to see if you were going to throw me before it was too late, and I had to do something to stop it. It's not because I'm so stupid I don't know throwing a out after getting counterhit doesn't beat what you were doing. I just couldn't afford to keep letting you get free throws, and when faced with two shitty options you have to choose the less shitty one. You don't even believe me when I tell you that after a while the fight got so boring, and frankly annoying, that I didn't feel like trying anymore. What this comes down to I guess, is that you refuse to give me the benefit of the doubt on anything I say, and it makes it look like I'm not listening to you, when the reality of the situation is I already was fully aware of the things you told me and there just wasn't a whole lot I could do about it. Think about it man, if you had to resort to annoying spam to win, how was it the wrong decision for me to do it?

 

You obviously didn't pay attention to my break down of your style. I wasn't striking you with over and over because I wanted to throw you. It was because I KNEW you would spam.

I hear everything your saying man, but at this point to me it's all excuses. The other day I played Happyfriend and boy did I get my ass kicked! Now I could have come up with excuses like oh I was using Jeffry, it was lagging blah blah blah! Instead I gave the dude props and thought of ways to adjust. Lag or no lag I always look for a way to adjust. If the lag is that bad I don't play that person. Why play them if I'm gonna then come on here and complain?

You have been playing me for years dude and only now your complaining about lag? C'mon son! This is why I think this thread is stupid. I think 4 years later if you are still playing online you should not be complaining about lag because you should know by now who you have a good connection with and who you DON'T!!!!!!

 

zyx, frame data table is a very useful tool to describe the current situation by showing numbers to make users understand. If you realize you're -2 at first, then rest of the shitty sequences probably wouldn't come out because both you and Konjou are at the same rhythm. Of course it's no necessary to memorize all numbers(unless you prefer), but your common(main) moves are important. Otherwise, how could you tell the connection is laggy or smooth? By feeling? It's always not too late to check out VF wiki, and the reason I try my best to play all characters is because I can browse their moves on black book immediately when I have trouble.

 

But then if I'd started blocking, you would have seen it and thrown me. Don't tell me you wouldn't have, because you did on several occasions. Either way I'm screwed, because for whatever reason you were able to react in the lag better than I was.

Did you see how in my first post how I complemented Happyfriend? The way he played Jeffry made it so I actually had to play moral to win. Let me repeat that for you. I was getting my ass kicked until I started to play a proper moral game. Never happened to me before. I have never actually had a match online where there was a good enough connection, and the other player was so strong, that playing moral was the only option that actually worked. That motivated me to create this thread a lot more than my match with you did frankly.

You know, I think you and pretty much everyone else here somewhat misunderstood the point of this thread. I didn't really mean to make it about our match, I was just using it as an example. For some reason everyone just latched onto the fact I was talking about playing you again, and turned it into the main point of the discussion. God knows I wasn't encouraging it. The main things I wanted to accomplish with this thread were, to get an idea of why fighting the way that I do offends so many people, and to see if I would actually be more respected if I fought moral and lost all the time. And I would lose, because like I keep on saying, I can't be moral without being able to react properly. Whenever I try, I just keep getting raped by things even when I know I did the right thing to beat them. And I know for a fact it doesn't happen to me that way offline.

For the record, we have always lagged, and I always used a lot of spam tactics against people who lag with me because that's what works for me in lag. You're just the only one who takes it so damn seriously. If you want I can knock it off and play you again, but I will lose every damn time because lag limits my workable options so greatly. And then you will just use that fact to justify your opinion that I'm an excuse making scrub, which isn't true.

I know I probably shouldn't play people I lag with in the first place, but most people lag at least a little, and it always impacts the game to at least some extent. Where do I draw the line? And why should I ever make a conscious decision to do something I know won't work just because it's "correct"?

So what am I supposed to do here? I started a thread on moral play in lag, and I get three pages of being publicly derided and told that I need to learn the basics. Which is frankly pretty fucking ridiculous because even if I am sketchy in a few areas, I know enough about the game that I shouldn't have to deal with people questioning my competency every time I decide to post something. I obviously made a mistake in naming names in my original post, which is in retrospect probably the worst thing I could have done in term of getting my actual point across. But come on guys this is just fucking ridiculous.

 

I know Dennis, I know. I really do understand how frame data actually works, even if I don't memorize the actual numbers. It's just that when I can't even execute basic defensive techniques, frames aren't really going to do me a whole lot of good.

 

Zyx, I think its cool that you can approach situations and analyze things under your own judgment alone, but sometimes we have to stop and listen to what other people are saying. If one person tells me I smell like eggs, I might not pay too much attention. But if a whole room of people tell me I smell like eggs, unbiased, then maybe I should listen. Hell you even got people giving you new clothes, without even directly mentioning you smell.

The first person to tell me I suck and me actually listen to, kinda bugged me out. It ate me cuz it was one of the dudes I wanted to be as good as from a gameplay perspective. The past 3 or so years have been nothing but hard work for me. And 2 of those years, I played literally everyday, learning as much as I could, and working on my execution.

I realized whenever I consumed myself with just winning, I would always end up disappointed, win or lose. Its much better to just appreciate the experience and learn whatever you can. I still think I suck though, ill probably never be as good as I envision but I love working towards that goal. And I also appreciate the people around me working towards that goal as well, regardless of their current skillset.

I would recommend everyone to try to pick up an alt. A lot of people wonder why I switch up characters so much. Its to keep myself from abusing bad habits, and to keep my brain working.

 

You have lost here, zyx.

Let me ask you one question, do you mean "attack at -2", when you block opponent's P and you tend to use elbow, as moral? If your answer is NO, and then tell me why would you consider you were moral and Konjou were spamming? If your answer is YES, I have nothing to say cuz we are talking about different definition of moral.

I remember somehow earlier you said frame is not important for you, and most time you just 2P and sidestep when you have advantage. Well, if Megan Fox standing right in front of you and she can offer you a blow job, why would you evade or just 2P her? If I'm at positive, don't you think I should use my advantage to force her blow me twice? That's how the frame works, and these replies would help you improve!

Keep in mind people here can actually hide the truth, and you probably won't know -2 is not able to elbow back until you're dead. Now you know this detail, and the best way to figure out the rest of treasure is study the fundamental your own, as long as you'd like to dig into this game.

 

Great post Cozby. I saw immediate improvement the moment you switched away from Lei, you have a really good mindset for some one so young. Xyz' anyone that has been in a party with me knows how much i hate your style and connection. But it seems to me that you put too much of a premium on winning'. Online is not a true indicator of your skill level. Every single frame lost' can be the difference between a win and a loss. In fact my bet is that the connection was actually good. Just not what youre used to getting. Furthermore, this wouldnt be an issue if you had learned good movement. You always 2p 2k to gdt out of danger when you could have ecd, bcd, bd, bdcd, bde.

 

What about abc, xyz and lmnop? those are good options too.

 

X a few things and then I'm seriously done with this thread.

1) I am not taking any of this seriously. Believe me on this!

2) I really don't think people find your play style offensive. Boring? Yes, but not offensive. Why is it boring? Man read your own words... you keep saying you know the game, but seriously dude you don't. I'm not trying to insult you. I'm just telling you the truth based on your own explanations of the system.

3) Do you really understand the word moral in terms of game play?

4) Yea you probably shouldn't play people you lag with.

5) Lag or not... focus on learning and having some fun. You will see that in the end it doesn't matter if you win or lose when you play online. Offline? Now that's a different story.

6) You have inspired me to play Eileen!

 

Is it true to just Say Xyz lives in his own VF world where his rules apply? To me playing him is boring and uninspiring.. I won't bash on him but after 4 years you'd expect more.. Hell i even lose to him. after like 3 games though win or lose im gone fuck all that other shit. There's nothing to gain there.

 

Indeed, US has almost none Eileen player!

 

I tried to give Eileen a shot, but something about her playing design started boring me out of my mind. She has so much power, but feels so incomplete. Like she has a lot of useless stuff, but some of things that she has that is actually useful... is a lil TOO useful. Felt like I couldn't be as creative as I wanted to be, she's more for efficiency styled players, I prefer the creative expression route.

FS Eileen on the other hand looks a lot of fun, that's what had inspired me to use for a little bit at one point.

 

Nononono, of course not. I was not aware getting hit with punch, cancel left you at -2 when I suggested elbow was an option. Of course elbow would not be moral in that situation, if you are at -2. Like I said, should have known it, but now I do at least.

Why what a colorful analogy, lol. But really, I don't evade or 2p when I have the advantage if I know I have the advantage. Not intentionally at least.

Ok, now I'm going to say something that will likely cause more people to jump down my throat, but at least they'll know where I'm coming from. I play VF for fun. To me, it is more fun to take a learn from experience approach, than to read up on and study VF. Obviously, by taking that approach, I'm bound to miss things, and lack a complete understanding of the game. But quite honestly, I don't care that much. As long as there are enough people out there who can still beat me once in a while, I'm happy to keep playing.

Would you care to elaborate? I'm just curious what makes playing me seem boring and uninspiring to you, because people do have varying opinions on that subject.

 

I might misunderstood what you mean, but anyway that's your call, there is no exactly way to play VF.

Fair enough, but still keep in mind what you experience online is not entirely true. "Abare" + "lag" + "players don't know proper moves" will make you think you are correct, but actually not(The same situation as here talking about P on blocked). You have your way to enjoy this game which means your opponent can too, so don't be upset if someone refuse your match because everyone has his own reason just like you.

Fundamental(frame) is just a tool, and of course you can throw away and never touch it if you don't like it. However, how long does it take to make you realize -2 situation? And how much time will it cost to click VF wiki frame table on the corner main page?

Your content doesn't match your thread title actually, and people here just try to explain why. All I can say is don't limit yourself and you should give wiki a shoot!

 

Eileen doesn't suit me either. As a old school player, sometimes I think she shouldn't belong to VF. No doubt she is really awesome on FS videos, and become one huge threat too!!

 

In order to get better, its important not to try to defeat yourself. Sometimes you can fail trying to do the right thing, then its the execution thats the problem.

.. its online anyway.