Lei-Fei and Vanessa on LIVE

Come on guys,I also suck at online but I'm not gonna blame the button mashers,I blame myself because I haven't mastered enough the game.
WTF guys,did you watch the japanese players fights in tournaments? do you hear them complain about button mashers? no,why? because they have spend entire days mastering this game and they know how to play the goddamn game.

So what now? because we(or at least I) suck fighting against button mashers does it mean that we need to nerf Vannessa or Lei?why not nerfing also Jacky,Lion and Lau also for a start,oh and also include fireballs so I can shoot them from far away too,pseh!

 

I thought there was no cheese.

 

I've only just read some of the posts in this thread. And Jeneric's stand-out. For their sheer desperation. You think I'm listening to break-downs of her moves that say "'X' is crap", "'Y' can just be ducked". Stop pretending she's got all these weaknesses and easily avoidable moves. She's mega powerful and you know it. That's why you cottoned on to her in the first place - if you didn't think she made it easier to win, you most-likely wouldn't be still using her. And your points are less valid than anyone else's on this particular thread - you use her exclusively, therefore you bring bias with it.

Would you care so much about the content of this thread and defending Vanessa, if you played as a different character? I doubt it. You're going out of your way in an attempt to confirm that the way you lord wins over everyone has complete validity. If you're as good at VF as you claim, you could abandon Vanessa and learn Goh, where you'd be able to do just as well. You know for a fact that it wouldn't be possible so what does that prove? You love the advantages Vanessa gives you. You'd feel lost and comparitively vulnerable without them, therefore, wouldn't you have to admit that she's got advantages?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Vanessa is the "top-tier" character. I agree with neonxaos and also don't believe in tiers. Any incredible VF player could beat Pai while using Aoi for example every time. What my argument has always been is that Vanessa and Lei-Fei give crap players cheesey advantages that can get them undeserved wins.

And through all this, I don't see many people leaping to the defense of Lei-Fei's ability to cheese, purely because he had 'beginner' stamped under his name on the VF4 player select...

At least I have now learned that, on the whole, the VF and Tekken community aren't that different after all. Seeing as the recurring theme throughout this thread has been "YOU'RE CRAP ON IT!!!!!!!"

 

Yeah, I mean, the only reason anyone would play as Vanessa is because of her hideous advantage ever everyone else! Nobody could possibly like her character design or the way her fighting style flows together or appreciate a truly strong female character in a fighting game, amirite?

Lemme tell you, buddy, I've been playing VF even longer than you have, and I switched to Vanessa from Lion/Sarah when she first appeared in VF4, and rode through the massive changes she went through in VF4evo. Learning and re-learning her, with that movelist double the size of everyone else's, was about as much fun as getting teeth pulled. And yet for some godforsaken reason I kept at it. I think a lot of Vanessa players endured the same thing - sticking with learning an extremely difficult character - and you're basically saying that all that hard work and effort means nothing because she's a masher-friendly character you don't know how to deal with and anyone who picks her picks her for that reason despite online VF never ever being considered when she was first introduced. Yeah, that's a good way to piss people off.

FUN GAME FOR THE VIEWERS AT HOME: Replace "Vanessa" with "Kage" in any one of VF3beatsVF4's posts and watch him turn into Shang without the profanity and homosexual innuendo!

 

Vanessa is god-tier we must all switch to her

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Seeing as the recurring theme throughout this thread</div></div>
There is something recurring all right

 

We need an active moderator on this forum to delete topics like this and warn and/or ban people who make them.

 

I've played against Jeneric for years now (and so have many others) and he played Van through Evo and sticked by her. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. And for you to use someone giving you advice on how to beat a character as an attackingpoint says more about you then the person giving advice.

Don't cry for our sake. What DO you WANT? You don't want advice and you don't want to learn the characters. Maybe both communities recognized that behind your nice paragraphes there was a scrub with a scrub mentality? If so I applaud the tekken community. This thread should've stopped when you said that Vanessa was masher / newbie friendly. Has it ever, ever, occured to you that you might be wrong? Or is everything just a validation of your Poirot like suspicions?

Keep on updating your onlinestats.

 

Of course you don't. Because that would make like...SENSE and stuff, there's even this dangerous risk that you could learn something.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stop pretending she's got all these weaknesses and easily avoidable moves.</div></div>Why? Because you don't know how to exploit them they don't exist?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> She's mega powerful and you know it.</div></div>Mega powerful against people who don't know how to handle her yes. Quite powerful otherwise, yes.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> That's why you cottoned on to her in the first place - if you didn't think she made it easier to win, you most-likely wouldn't be still using her. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And your points are less valid than anyone else's on this particular thread - you use her exclusively, therefore you bring bias with it.</div></div>Wait a minute. Because I actually KNOW Vanessa, my opinion is worth less then yours? Because I have several years of Vanessa experience and have experienced her weaknesses firsthand, my opinion is worth less then yours?

And how do you know I "exclusively" use Vanessa and don't play any other characters? You don't know me, you've never played against me IRL.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would you care so much about the content of this thread and defending Vanessa, if you played as a different character?</div></div>Yes, because this thread is a textbook example of a scrub at work.

No, you're not a scrub because you "lose to mashers" or not, or because you don't know how to deal with Vanessa or any other character.

You're a scrub because of your mentality.

I can get beaten by Shuns, a character I know very little about and I regularly slam my fist in my stick in frustration over getting beaten with mixups I don't know or fully understand. But I don't go making threads about it on VFDC crying like a little baby. Why? Because I know that *I* have problems with Shuns. Sure, Shun might be considered the best character in the game, but I know for sure that I, with research/experience/knowledge could learn to handle some of the mixups I get exposed too.

Or as this guy says:

That's a very admirable insight into himself. I don't care how good/bad Yoomazir is, just by his attitude towards the game he shows he's not a scrub. You on the other hand don't show any ambition to learn or improve. You instead turn (like all scrubs) to the easier solution: Whining about the character. Because of course, the fault can never be within you.

I and others have openly welcomed you to ask about moves/flowcharts/setups you have problems with, yet you can't come up with ONE concrete example.

You are the worst kind of person you can have in a community, a bitter whiner that always tries to explain away his own losses by trying to take away from his fellow players' wins.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You're going out of your way in an attempt to confirm that the way you lord wins over everyone has complete validity. If you're as good at VF as you claim, you could abandon Vanessa and learn Goh, where you'd be able to do just as well. You know for a fact that it wouldn't be possible so what does that prove? You love the advantages Vanessa gives you. You'd feel lost and comparitively vulnerable without them, therefore, wouldn't you have to admit that she's got advantages?</div></div>
I never claimed I was a good player, nor do I actually think I'm that good of a player And I've never thought or claimed that online VS is comparable or valid as a measurement of who is the better player.

I don't see a reason why I should abandon Vanessa, a character I've played since VF4: Evo, because OTHER people have problems with her. I always try to tell people I play how to deal with moves and flowcharts they eat over and over, and after that it's quite simply no longer my problem. It's up to them to learn and use it. I can tell you, against the person I play the most, the moves and tactics you probably think are too powerful regularly makes me eats beatknuckles as punishment.

Sure Vanessa has advantages. Plenty of them. But the thing you very conveniently always leave out is that these advantages are split between her Defensive Stance and Offensive Stance, meaning she never has all these advantages at once.

If a move is proven to work against someone because they don't know it, of course I'll exploit it. Why shouldn't I? I'm not your court jester, I'm not going to play a particular way for YOUR amusement. I play to win. NOT using these moves would be harmful to both me and my opponent, because if he doesn't get exposed to these moves, how will he learn to handle them?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't get me wrong, I don't think Vanessa is the "top-tier" character. I agree with neonxaos and also don't believe in tiers. Any incredible VF player could beat Pai while using Aoi for example every time. What my argument has always been is that Vanessa and Lei-Fei give crap players cheesey advantages that can get them undeserved wins.</div></div> Now you're just making me laugh with your contradictions.

On one hand Vanessa is (in your own words) mega powerful, yet tiers doesn't exist so she's not top tier. So since tiers doesn't exist, that would mean that your character (whichever you use) is just as powerful as mine and therefore I should have no advantage, right?

Am I getting too logical here?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And through all this, I don't see many people leaping to the defense of Lei-Fei's ability to cheese, purely because he had 'beginner' stamped under his name on the VF4 player select...</div></div>Probably because you haven't really said anything about Lei Fei. How are they supposed to defend anything when you can't make any real arguments with actual moves and such?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At least I have now learned that, on the whole, the VF and Tekken community aren't that different after all.</div></div>Yes, we're both plagued with whiners who refuse to look within themselves for faults, instead choosing to project their own weaknesses on the ones they lose to.

With all of that said, all of this hate is making my heart go all warm and fuzzy inside. Tastes like happy. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

vf3beatsvf4, calm down a bit, i think you're taking people's remarks a bit too seriously.

jeneric is a good player, i played him a few times and he throw escapes, evades and mixes his attacks up. i don't think it's right to turn what was originally a complaint (possibly valid) about the power of two characters and button spammers into a personal attack on him.

this thread has now descended into throwing personal insults, perhaps its time for the mod to step in and lock it?

 

my 2 cents.... The bitch is over powered nuff said. I'm not saying she isn't beatable cause she is. I'm just stating the obvious. I played low sweep today online within 2 seconds of start of our match I just burst into laughter. Its amazing to me how much all vanessa players all play the same with the exception of jeneric. Its just space and middle kick all day. When all else fails just use intruder step setups. Its not like you can punish her after any of it. I won't call it cheap cause I find ways around it. Manage to get my wins in against low sweep and generic, not saying they didnt hand me some lumps to. I'm considering jumping on the space middle kick band wagon. I might as learn it then I'll know how to beat it even more easily with akira. Anyone who doesn't think vanessa is over powered is seriously smoking some new stuff that's not suppose to be out till 2008. She has become the new shun of vf5.

 

The key to beat her out of intruder step is not to anticipate the actual moves from it, but rather to beat out the entrance to it. After a while you can easily spot the startup animation and then just midkick her or something.

Intruder Step P is jab counterable on guard, Intruder Step PP+K+G you simply duck and punish.

 

my Aklra has allot of trouble online, when the enemy stops into mid-range, I start feeling disadvantage with Akira.

That's because I'm not a good Akira player, even though I like the character.

So, for Mid-range strangles, I resort to Shun, Wolf and Lau to go in reach for them

 

Funny... I've lurked this forum for years without joining, mostly just because I'm so antisocial I usually avoiding talking to people even on the internet. But, although it may be late in a dying, bloated thread, I felt compelled to register to make a point that I haven't seen anyone else mention.

I've often heard people recommend vanessa, or pai, or jacky, or other characters with a reasonable number of strings, to someone they were attempting to bring into the game. Especially people coming from Tkn or DOA, as strings visually resembled what they were used to. And with no online, and little popularity in the US, it felt like trying to convert someone to a new religion. But in my experience, what often happened was they tried, say vanessa, for example, said "hey this isn't so bad" when they skimmed the movelist and saw all the strings, and then proceeded to get the holy hell beat out of them by experienced players who had ready responses to them. And they'd never learn because they couldn't shake their old habits. Wailing on punch and kick was too tempting.

Now I almost always start people on Wolf. He has many useful attacks with simple direction plus button inputs, and the lack of anything that feels spammable seems to help alleviate the desire to throw out as many attacks as possible. He's pretty flashy too.

I suggest thinking of masher-thrashing as a sort of community service. It's early in the brave new world of Virtua Fighter Live, and the more people that learn the most consistent, most humiliating, and especially, the most consistently humiliating ways of countering that kind of crap, the more people will be forced to choose between moving on (or back), putting in the effort of learning how deep and balanced and different this game really is, or becoming another notch on my belt.
And forced choice is what it's all about, no?

 

this is weird hearing from konjou. i have no problem with lowsweep's vanessa. jeneric, please add me to ur friend list....chief flash. thanx

 

I hate to agree with the wrong side but after seeing yosuke mid kick only vanessa during socal I have to agree with konjou that perhaps vanessia should be toned down a bit..namely her ablity to walk back extremely fast

 

I find this thread humorous. I'll admit I hate playing against lei-fei... I've been ringed out by people just doing maxi-style attack strings without even landing a single hit more often than I'd like to admit;; I've also had matches against pretty decent lei-feis where I won using nothing but reversals though, it's just about whether I can feel the rythm.

I'm actually really surprised so many people seem to dislike vanessa. I'll admit I played as her for a while in early VF4 days, so maybe I just know what to expect. That said, there's so many easy ways to break all her moves (many of which were already mentioned). I actually find her to be one of the less "stringy" characters... pai and eileen seem to do everything that's been placed on vanessa's head much better. Except the crazy midkick that gets broadcast from a million miles away.

 

excellent tennis analogy myke, although it kind of comes back to the side point i was making about what's reasonable play within a social context.

if said tennis player who can't smash were playing a doubles match and his opponents cottoned on to his retardation with overheads, i'd expect them to exploit this weakness to an extent.

however, if the opposing players from then on decided to constantly throw lobs in that players direction for the remander of the match...i'd call that cheap and anti-social.

theres comes a point where people need to remember they're playing a game. games are indeed competative but they're also social.

the mentality of a good player would be to mix things up suitably to show himself and others the full extent of his skill.

in a tournament or highly competative setting this dynamic obviously changes.

 

Which is what ranked matches online are, right? I mean, there's a reason there's Ranked Mode where stats count and Player Matches where they don't.