Namco still up for Tekken vs. VF

It's all up to the individual, for most of my friends who don't play fighting games (casual players) they don't even know the first thing about Tekken or VF but they recognize Tekken based on it's wacky characters. I'll be like "You play VF?" and they will respond "I think once in the arcades" and then I ask "Do you play Tekken" and they go "Oh yeah! Thats the game with the bear in it right? I'm the best at that game". Say what you want about Tekken's characters but they are definatly more memorable then the VF ones, especially to the casual gamer.

 

Alleged VF's visual character blandness can be covered up with crazy customisations. Horrible, ear-piercing voice acting on the other hand... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

 

I will give a suitable quote to this occasion and go to bed for now.

"If human intellect is said to be finite, then human stupidity truly is infinite."
-Wilhelm Steinitz.

 

Welcome to VFDC and thank you for a well thought-out first post.

 

I Think this should belong in the Popularity thread, but here goes.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If Tekken vs VF ever happened, how many people do you think would choose Lei Fei over Lars? On one hand you have a generic kung fu monk, who is... gasp... bald. And on the other hand you have Heihachi's unknown bastard son, who has electric fists, looks like Son Goku, and can send you crashing into the wall half way across the screen.

Seriously, bring in any 12-year old, and which game will that kid choose?

You're right about one thing - Tekken vs VF will not do anything for VF at all. Not unless Akira looks like a cross between Bahn from FV and Akuma from SF. </div></div>

The character designs are fine, the reason why everyone seems to whine about VF having no soul is simply because it has no storyline.(cutscenes or endings) Street Fighter's characters are equally as bland, but no one gives a shit about that because there's actually some personality given to him or her. A story trailer instead of just Jean and Taka kicking everyone's ass or "here are all the character and their names" would really do the game some good and not lose its image.

"Otakufing" the game would drive people away, many people on NeoGAF don't approve of the character designs of the new characters in T6BR, hell I think Lars and Alisa are the worst looking characters in Tekken.

 

The reason I think people choose tekken over vf is the hidden property(or what I like 2 call the secret hand-shake) where they have moves that go though players and other players moves. and huge ass instant death combos. It gives tekken players the edge on noobs.

 

The character designs are fine, the reason why everyone seems to whine about VF having no soul is simply because it has no storyline.(cutscenes or endings) Street Fighter's characters are equally as bland, but no one gives a shit about that because there's actually some personality given to him or her. A story trailer instead of just Jean and Taka kicking everyone's ass or "here are all the character and their names" would really do the game some good and not lose its image.

"Otakufing" the game would drive people away, many people on NeoGAF don't approve of the character designs of the new characters in T6BR, hell I think Lars and Alisa are the worst looking characters in Tekken. </div></div>
To be fair, people on NeoGAF seem to hate Tekken in general. I showed my nephew (someone who would be considered a casual gamer by the members of this forum) the Atari live trailer and he was all "Wow that robot girl can launch her head lololololol." I'm actually not a huge fan of the designs either (though I will concede that Lars is pretty hot, despite his ridiculous outfit), but the appeal is there.

In any case, I think VF's character design is fine. But it really does need some sort of story. There's no hook.

 

Absoloutely not true, wait.... oh nvm, not true at all.

Being serious now, that half a page of pure bias you typed was quite scary to read.

 

Yes I was mocking his post, he just disagreed with everything everyone else wrote and typed Tekken for half a page.

Fight lameness with lameness and all that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

 

Maybe I misread it, all I seen when I first read it was... not true, tekken, not true, tekken, tekken for half a page or so.

Totally missed masterpo's post, guess I need to learn to actually read threads instead of skimming through posts then replying.

 

@Everyone: Many thanks for the warm welcome.

@Beligerent_Feck: Don't get me wrong, I love VF (why do I have a PS3 instead of an Xbox... drumroll... because I saw VF5 was on it before I found out the Xbox version had an online feature.), but Tekken, especially BR, is a very very good game.

It's different from VF, and not everyone fancies the playing style (I have a friend that went from hardcore Tekken 5, dropped Tekken 6 because of the changes, and picked up VF5, and has stuck with VF since).

But the thing is: most people who play 3D fighting games (and fighting games in general) to the extent of joining a forum/going to the arcade to learn are usually from the same groups. People who play Tekken play SC, VF, SF4, GG, and are looking forward to KOFXII, BlazBlue, and have all joined in the 5R-4-console petition. There are a few "2D-4-evah!" and "3D-4-evah!" people, but you have fanatics in everything anyway.

However, these people are not the problem. Who plays what is not the problem. The (VF's) problem is attracting casual gamers. There are so many issues to bring forward, and a lot of them have to do with lack of foresight. Sega created a fighting simulation when they first released VF1. Real martial arts, real moves. No fireballs. It was a revelation and it stood out during the era of AoF, SF, and Samurai Shodown - a sea of anime-inspired hand-drawn characters, we see a 3D fighting simulation. And it worked... for awhile.

Sega noticed that Tekken was picking up. Fantasy moves by fantasy players? Here comes Fighting Vipers. But Sega missed out on the simple detail that Namco made sure there was an actual storyline, even as early as Tekken 1. (as Terra pointed out). When people first saw the bear (Kuma), everyone in the arcade was saying: "WTH? Bruce Lee vs a Bear? I wanna see this go down..."
While all the "clued-in" players were saying "The bear is the pet of the last boss. Who's the last boss? The evil old dude with eagle hair - he threw his son off a cliff, and the son survived because he had the blood of the devil in him, and now he wants revenge."

You could imagine what that did to a market of arcade-goers who play SF, SS, AoF, FF, watch Anima, and read Manga or Marvel, or Image, or even Valiant (*ahem* showing my age here...).

Both FV and VF didn't have that "hook" (to quote boxydancer). That's why it didn't take off in the US market. Why do people watch pro-wrestling? To see highly technical luchadors? No. They want to see why The Rock wants to kick the ass of Mick Foley, or why Hollywood Hogan wants to see Goldberg whupped.

Which brings me back to the point of this thread: Before we should see a Tekken vs VF, we need Sega to do a VF reboot. I'm not saying get rid of all the characters (because that would alienate a LOT of loyal players), but loyal players aren't going to complain if Sega drew up a proper storyline, and then gave each character distinct character designs, and an actual "virtua-verse", and give the characters actual endings and whatnot.

Honestly, it's not rocket science.

@ShinyBrentford: What in the world are you talking about? Raven's ninja shadow? That move was designed to go through characters - it's not a glitch, and he's the only one who has it. But guess what? He's not S+ or even S. The best characters in the game have... nothing overtly fancy. They're just solid characters. There's no point on knocking on Tekken's hitbox system, because they've done a wonderful job on BR.

Also, if you're talking about the KYSG instant death combos on YouTube, keep in mind they are situation specific, just like Jeffry's "death" combos in 5R, and the chances of you landing one in an actual match are almost nil.

 

SuperPanda, you don't seem to realise that for some us VF did have "that hook". It still does now too /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Tekken, regardless of it's bears, devils, cliffs and what not never had any kind of hook for me. Since the first on PS One i've never been able to play them for more than a few days and I have gave every one a chance. I'm not saying I dislike Tekken though, i've never cared about it enough to form an opinion.

I seriously think that it's peoples attitude towards games that affects the sort of stuff you're typing about, if it's the actual gameplay you're interested in then you aren't going to need all these things like a random pointless story, bears fighting against giant robots, custom characters... whatever to hook you in.

Look at Quake 3, that's a barebones games. No story or anything, just pure gameplay and that game sold well! It's still being played by people to this day so does VF really need to go all casual to sell copies or progress, or is the problem something else altogether?

 

Man - he's not trying to convert you from VF to Tekken!

Individuals are hooked by different things. I liked VF2 Jacky because of the flame jacket and the sound of the Beat Knuckle. That's the first thing I remember about VF2. I also liked to use Baek in Tekken 2. I think he wore a hat and suit in the 2p costume. I mashed him at first and then learned how to make combos without a movelist.

I played both games in the arcade. I think I stuck with VF because people in my arcade were playing it. Then I found out my soon-to-be wife liked it. But that's just my experience.

I think a well-written story and character development would do VF some good.

This is brilliant...

The movie industry makes its biggest money from good stories coupled with a great look. These things are valid when it comes to selling a game to the widest audience possible.

 

I know he's not, I just don't like how he's stating VF has no "hooks" like it's a fact.

It's like VF has no fanbase whatsoever, meanwhile Tekken is making billions of $$ each day. Mainly cause it has a bear and some cliffs.

 

Who the fuck want's bear's and cliffs, you want story? How about Jeffry's journey of trying to catch the devil fish, now theres a hook right there.

 

And then there is the whole ""Guy lost his memory/got brainwashed" and dont remember his sister/friend/father/mother thingy.

And a clone! clones used to be all the rage, nowadays clones are so scarce!!

 

I think that what SuperPanda is trying to point out is that the MAJORITY of players who invest their money into fighting games prefer a fighter like Tekken.

You and I prefer VF but we're in the MINORITY.
Try to put yourself in the shoes of a Sega exec. Wouldn't it make sense to make your game more viable and appealing to more players? Very few games survive when they stick to their "artistic/creative integrity". I said it before and I'll say it again: at the end of the day, it's all about money. That's the true mark of success.

You, I and most of the members on VFDC may agree that Sega/AM2 have "succeeded" in making the best game on the market. But Sega's financial charts tell a different story. Yes, it's a well known fact that it's not just bc of VF's design but also the handling of VF's marketing and PR, other factors... but still, how can you fix it? How can anybody make VF the #1 fighting game?

There's a lot of ideas right here in this thread. Ideas that FINANCIALLY successful fighters have implemented. Ideas that have been tested and vetted. What makes Smash Brothers so appealing? What makes DOA sell so well? These answers don't lie in the gameplay unlike VF. VF's gameplay and fight system IS it's saving grace.

How do you please and manage to lure in casual gamers? You and I may think that VF is the very best but what most of these gamers are looking for, VF does not have.

"What if I just want to pick up a game and start kicking ass the very first day I play it? Excluding online Lei-Fei, can I do that with VF? How about a few weeks? Excluding Shun, can I do that with VF?

What if I don't know how to even do a Hadoken, let alone buffer stupid throw escapes (lol)? What if I just want to look cool while I mash on some buttons? Sit around with my friends and kick each others asses with really cool-looking characters that do insane stuff at the push of a few buttons? Can VF make me look good even though I don't know what I'm doing?

Ooh, ooh, also I want some really cool cut scenes after I beat the game. I want something for my troubles damnit! I want to see my character doing some cool stuff like riding a motorbike, shooting it out in a war, juno cool stuff! Yeah!

I don't want to LEARN the game in order to get better. I just want to kick ass!"

How do you get these people's money (and trust, there's A LOT more of these "casual" gamers than there are of us "hardocore" gamers) and STILL maintain depth? Tekken has accomplished this and VF needs to take a lot more notes than it already has.

 

I hope this "TK vs VF" dream won't come true....
Don't ruin both of them.......