New player "essentials"-console, hardware, etc.?

Erm hmm. That doesnt look like the Ascii stick I had.

The stick Shinta was referring to looks more like This

 

Hi Manjimaru! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Would you still say that either ASCII stick (both the one Plague had posted and the one that you have recently mentioned above) are generally inferior to the VF4 and VF4E Hori sticks?

I'm going to compile all of the joysticks I've looked at as of now. Anyone may feel free to rank them in numerical order of quality; the first stick on the list being the best and descending to the last, the worst for a new, non-hardcore player.


<u>Virtua Fighter 4 Sticks</u>-
* Virtua Fighter 4 (Original) Hori Stick- http://cgi.ebay.com/JP-Playstation-Virtu...p3286.m20.l1116

My comments: Is this better than the Evolution stick? (See below.)

* Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution Hori Stick [Red,Blue]- http://cgi.ebay.com/Virtua-Fighter-4-sig...p3286.m20.l1116

My comments: Superior to the original VF4 stick?

* Import Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution Stick- http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Import-Virtua-F...%3A1%7C294%3A50

My comments: The most inferior in terms of quality of the VF4/VF4E-themed stick series? Looks like a Korean imitation = not as good? Thoughts?


<u>ASCII Sticks</u>-
* ASCII FT Fighting Stick ("Plague's version")- http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/414F886PHYL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

* ASCII Specialized Arcade Style Stick ("Manjimaru's/Shinta's version")- http://store.videogamecentral.com/ascii-arcade-stick.html

My comments: Are these essentially the same? Are they both of less quality than the VFs above?


<u>Other Sticks</u>-
* Saturn Virtua Stick (for PS2?)- http://cgi.ebay.com/Virtua-STICK-Virtua-...p3286.m20.l1116

* Hori Fighting Stick 2- http://cgi.ebay.com/fighting-stick-2-PS2...p3286.m20.l1116

My comments: Are these both the essentially the same equivalent as those in the Virtua Fighter 4 series?

* Real Arcade Pro Stick- http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-m-49-en-70-5w3.html

My comments: The best of the bunch?


* Lastly, any sticks not mentioned here that are better than ALL of these? (Please do not mention mods or customs.)


I hope this will be organized enough for any willing to rank the sticks! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Thank you!

 

In short: yes. Personally Id rather take playability over durability, because in the first case you can enjoy playing at least as long as the stick holds together, while in the second case you might not get enjoyable games at all.

 

Airaku

I say go for the Hori Real Arcade Pro (HRAP) if you can afford it, because it's the best of the bunch.

what's inside the HRAP is a Sanwa Lever and Sanwa buttons. the best on the market, the very same stuff used to build VF arcade cabinets. In a way, Sanwa and VF go hand in hand, because the game is built around Sanwa components.

All the other sticks have cheaper parts, that when worn out will need some work to replace. I LOVE modding my sticks, so for me this is not a big deal. Others might get annoyed. It's like fixing your car or you bike...some like it, some hate it!

 

Incorrect. HRAP only holds sanwa stick but not buttons. The buttons are easily replacable due to stick construction should you want to, however. I agree that HRAP is the best of the sticks discussed here, regardless. (its also going to be the most expensive)

 

Yeah, the buttons on the HRAP are only slightly more durable than the notoriously shotty buttons on the vf4evo sticks. Thing is, the HRAP has loads more buttons than Hori's dedicated VF sticks & so you can quickly replace your P, G or K button for one of the many buttons on the stick which aren't used for VF.

Provided you already have or can borrow the necessary tools & you have some modicum of mechanical or problem solving skill, your cheapest & most rewarding option might be to build your own stick for VF. Chances are you'll end up having to learn the necessary skills anyway since even the best arcade controls aren't bulletproof and VF wants you to play it ALOT.

edit : I guess I mentioned mods or customs. Sorry.

 

sanjuroAKIRA: No need to apologize. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I guess I was being too strict to exclude discussion on mods or customs because I know next to nothing on the subject, and didn't want to appear any more ignorant here than I already have, lol! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif For me, it's one thing to talk about sticks, with all their individual subtleties and nuances, and its another to bring mods/customs into the mix which are all the more complicated a subject. I really shouldn't have been so restrictive, and it is I who should be the one apologizing to you, an obvious expert. Gomen, sensei. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

So allow me to retract my previous statement: Discussion on mods and custom joysticks is now open. Feel free to discuss mods and swap tips here.

Also, I want to really thank you for mentioning the HRAP. I would never have known about it as soon as I have now were it not for you, and you saved me from the very probable, frustrating situation of me buying a stick of lesser quality, only to realize the HRAP's superiority too late. I suppose, were I in that hypothetical situation, I could always return the stick and get a refund, maybe, but to be spared the general hassle of it all makes me truly appreciative. Best of all, I can afford it too! So, yeah, thanks! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

You know your stuff, that's for sure, so I may want to ask you some things in the (near, lol) future if that'd be alright? Everyone here has been equally helpful, but I guess it's just my way of saying that I'd like to be sure to hear your opinion on subjects because I sincerely value it. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbs_up.gif


Manjimaru: Can I call you Manji for short? Or, dare I say it... Manjū? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif



Just kidding! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif Your insight on the ASCIIs has definitely helped me make sense of the general quality that separates good joysticks from mediocre ones. It would be far too easy just to learn all I need to know about which stick is the best, but I'm starting to have a better idea of the finer details between joystick brands. We haven't just discussed the ASCIIs, of course; every topic that you have offered your say on has been consistently constructive. As such, I appreciate your practical, astute observations and will continue to look forward to them. Thank you. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbs_up.gif


Matteo, the man with ten joysticks /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif : I've always been grateful for your patience to walk me through the technical side of things. Explaining the mechanics of a joystick might seem obvious to some, but from your descriptions I've certainly improved my knowledge. As I told sanjuroAKIRA, I'm going to get the HRAP. Seeing as you already favor the sticks, it's encouraging to see someone knowledgeable who would support that decision-- it means maybe I'm not a complete idiot after all, lol! I would have taken you up on your offer to come to Cardiff to buy your stick, but alas that would require a plane ticket first as well! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Still I want to thank you for suggesting that and for the previous offer on getting VF5; even if I have declined the proposition at the moment, I am by no means any less grateful at your considerate gesture. Who knows, I may just ask one of these days. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I am always happy to see a new comment from you and thank you for the time and effort you have put into responding to me! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbs_up.gif


EDIT- Here are some questions for anyone:

1. I have seen two color variants of the original (I assume) green-buttoned HRAP so far, one with blue buttons and stick, and the other, orange. Is there any difference other than cosmetic that separates the blue- or orange-buttoned/-sticked HRAPs from the green one? Do they play any differently, are of better build, etc.?

2. If the HRAP joystick is the best of the list, which would you say is the second best? (I ask out of interest’s sake for general knowledge and also to consider buying if for whatever reason I could not get a HRAP.)

3. Where is the best place to buy joysticks in general? In specific, where is the best place to buy a HRAP stick?

4. Do they have joystick repair shops to call in the phonebook and are they generally effective (i.e. not overpriced scam jobs, etc.)? (Too lazy to check.)

5. Whatever happened to Catch22?


That’s all for now! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif I need to catch up on studying for school. However, I'll be sure to come back and bother you all soon on Tuesday! Thanks again! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Airaku,

I'm a bit rushed because I'm posting form work,
but I noticed you speak a bit of japanese, maybe you have friends in Japan as well? if so, the best way to get a HRAP for a reasonable price is to buy it on yahoo JApanese auctions:

http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g77179241

laters

 

Hiya Matteo! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Like I alluded to previously, I'm rather busy myself this week too... but I definitely wanted to be sure to reply to your considerate response. As always I am happy you took the time to write something. ^_^

Well, I took you up on your suggestion of looking at the Yahoo! Japanese Auctions and found two sticks I like, and have also attempted to contact the sellers. I don't have the luxury of being graced with any Japanese friends, sadly, but was able to manage a bit on my own. I haven't heard back from the sellers I've contacted yet, but I hope for the best. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

In the meantime I found this on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Hori-PS2-Real-Ar...%3A1%7C294%3A50

Do you - or anyone else reading this, for that matter /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif - suppose it's worth bidding on? I kind of like the blue variant better (which is generally $50 USD or so more, but why the price difference?), and one of my earlier questions was if there were any differences between the general quality and performance of the models aside from color, so... yeah. Any takers on that care to put in their two cents? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

Here's an important question for me as well, open to everybody: Suppose I don't buy whatever colored stick of the Hori Real Arcade Pro now and decide to postpone a purchase until the summer. Is it better to start training in VF4:Evo immediately and/or exclusively with a joystick than with a PS2 controller? Some may say, "What's the harm of trying out the controller? You have it, why not?" I'm not suggesting touching the controller in any way is detrimental or inhibitive to anything, but what I ask is: is there something that using the controller can teach you that a joystick couldn't? Does it teach you anything worthwhile that the joystick cannot replicate? Yes, I will of course briefly try out the controller and pad because I have it by default... but if in the case I wait to buy a joystick later and use the controller in the meantime until then, my experience with the controller won't be for naught, right? It's not as if using the controller and joystick are essentially the same thing in different formats, just one obviously superior in engendered performance than the other (they are NOT the same, I assume, right?)? Will the controller help me build significantly on my gameplay when I get the joystick later down the line other than providing familiarity with button schemes (what does what), etc.? If the controller and joystick are roughly equivalent in teaching the same things in Virtua Fighter and the joystick is simply superior in execution... why should I bother with the controller at all if the only reason would be to prepare myself with the layout, which the joystick already does? Will I just un-learn what the controller taught because the joystick can do the same thing, only better? In short: can I afford to wait on purchasing a stick and using the controller for now, but more importantly, will I benefit from it in a way that I would not had I only used the joystick? This is so hard to describe... but I hope it makes sense. My deepest apologies for repeating myself and how long and pointless this question is. >_<

I guess stupid questions from stupid people go hand in hand. Hope anyone can help, but if not that's understandable, too. I hate being a n00b with nothing worthwhile to offer the veterans out there. I hate coming off this way. Sorry guys. Your silence is warranted. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

Thanks for looking, at least. - Airaku

 

Airaku

I say start immediately, I don't even know why you haven't started yet!

VF system is unlike other fighting games. You cannot just press back, or block, and be safe. Defence is as troublesome as offence, if not more so. You will have to condition your brain to stop pressing G and start inputting TE and stuff every time you just want to stand there guarding instead. the sooner, the better!

 

I'd say yes, the stick is worth bidding on. You wont get much better stick for PS2 without modding it. As for the price difference, I dont know. That stick and the fighting jam version I had have no differences apart from color and cover art to my knowledge.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here's an important question for me as well, open to everybody: Suppose I don't buy whatever colored stick of the Hori Real Arcade Pro now and decide to postpone a purchase until the summer. Is it better to start training in VF4:Evo immediately and/or exclusively with a joystick than with a PS2 controller? Some may say, "What's the harm of trying out the controller? You have it, why not?" I'm not suggesting touching the controller in any way is detrimental or inhibitive to anything, but what I ask is: is there something that using the controller can teach you that a joystick couldn't? Does it teach you anything worthwhile that the joystick cannot replicate? Yes, I will of course briefly try out the controller and pad because I have it by default... but if in the case I wait to buy a joystick later and use the controller in the meantime until then, my experience with the controller won't be for naught, right? It's not as if using the controller and joystick are essentially the same thing in different formats, just one obviously superior in engendered performance than the other (they are NOT the same, I assume, right?)? Will the controller help me build significantly on my gameplay when I get the joystick later down the line other than providing familiarity with button schemes (what does what), etc.? If the controller and joystick are roughly equivalent in teaching the same things in Virtua Fighter and the joystick is simply superior in execution... why should I bother with the controller at all if the only reason would be to prepare myself with the layout, which the joystick already does? Will I just un-learn what the controller taught because the joystick can do the same thing, only better? In short: can I afford to wait on purchasing a stick and using the controller for now, but more importantly, will I benefit from it in a way that I would not had I only used the joystick? This is so hard to describe... but I hope it makes sense. My deepest apologies for repeating myself and how long and pointless this question is. >_<

Thanks for looking, at least. - Airaku </div></div>

While I believe stick is ergonomically superior to the pad, and people usually have problems moving into the stick after having been pad-users, there are still things that you can learn beforehand. In my opinion, for instance familiarising yourself with timing, learning to recognise moves after which you can counterattack etc. Unfortunately, we were talking about VF4Evo here, and it has in certain cases different timing, different moveset and of course looks very different from VF5.

VF4Evo DOES have tutorials for some advanced techniques, which are, after a fashion, applicable to VF5 as well. This is the reason why VF4evo has been recommended so much. However, trying to learn things with a pad at first and then moving a to stick is sort of wasted time in my opinion.. Stick is so different. You can try of course, if you already have the option. I wouldnt say using pad is detrimental but it depends on how much you use it before you move on to the joystick. If you are just starting your VF hobby, you will be more susceptible to "bad habits". I cant name any that are dependent on using pad, but I have observed that different people have different 'quirks'. What works for one may not work for another.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Manjimaru: Can I call you Manji for short?</div></div>
Everybody calls me Manji /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif