Taking your percentages!

As i m playing with akira it s true that i haven t considerate all the dodge attack.
For jeffrey it will not be a good idea but for akira or kage(very good dodge attack) it look like a good escape no?

 

It sounds ok but I'm not sure if you can do do:

u --> f+P+G - df+P+G ---> P+K+G

I'm not positive that during a dodge attack you can be thrown, and if you can be thrown, I'm not sure how far the dodge attack will go before you cannot throw anymore. Also I don't know if it's possible to enter two throw escapes and then press P+K+G for the attack.

I guess this needs testing.

 

Creed, I dont think its possible, My reaon for this is that the speed at which you would have to do it is probably impossible for chibita or tetsujin players, let alone new players on VFDC. Not trying to talk shit just making an observation.

 

You can't be thrown when doing a dodge attack like Akira's d|u+P+K+G, so there is no point in doing throw escapes if your not at -8f and doing a dodge attack. It will avoid both throws and linear attacks. Again this is pertaining specifically to Akira's dodge attack.

 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
It sounds ok but I'm not sure if you can do do:
u --> f+P+G - df+P+G ---> P+K+G

[/ QUOTE ]

I imagine that would result in the first move of the SPoD coming out after your throw escapes.

 

Dodge attacking isn't an option in playing percentages. The reason you don't see it alot in Korean and Japanese vids is that most dodge attackes are either punch or elbow counterable, with exception to lions which you should never do anyway due to the fact that it is high.

The dodge attack will hit if you input before the throw(Instant Dogde Attack) but if they attack and you input(instant Dodge Attaack) after there attack which is a few frames ahead of yours due to the elbow stagger or whatever situation you put in to dodge attack, usually being at a big disadvantage. There attack will hit on MC, its just not a good idea to do when your "PLAYING Percentages". IMO. Where are the Lei_fei responses? Jedi wasn't totally right. =)

Creed: read your post, elbow stagger, G, knee isn't an option. If the opponent is up on things, he will not lp unless I dash in. And I garauntee that you cannot dash in and then get knee off in time to not take LP on MC. While it will work, its not "PLAYING PERCENTAGES". I would rather wait for a dodge(27 frames) to knee rather than putting my percentages in the closet and going for a 17 frame launcher that gives me up punch counterably on the whim that someone is going to instantly lp after elbow stagger. With jacky's elbow stagger you do have some time to play with. So wait for the dash in and then LP =). later guys.

 

I've been thrown by Akira's + while I was doing a dodge attack

 

Creed: read your post, elbow stagger, G, knee isn't an option. If the opponent is up on things, he will not lp unless I dash in.

Ok, two points I wanna make then.
1. It is NOT necessary to dash in order to land the knee interrupt. I'm not going to dash in and knee when I can do it without moving an inch. I tested it, try it yourself if you need to.

2. If you're gonna stand there waiting for the forward dash, then you eat a throw if I'd chosen to throw instead. You can't have it both ways and say "I will psychically low punch, but only at the right time" ... either you commit to the low punch and open yourself up to a knee, or don't commit to it and eat a throw.

There is no such thing as "I can use strictly reflexes and d+P to beat both attack and throw", you HAVE to E-DTE to pull off that brand of voodoo.

Don't worry though, I'll keep low punching out of staggers myself /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

On a possibly related note, in the final round of the final match of the tournament mukky akira used (I'm assuming) E-DTE (G) three times. First he ate a MC f+P from pai and successfully escaped ... was it the 270 throw? I can't tell at a glance except that it wasn't SE, ST, rollover, P+G, or DDT. The next time he got cocky and tried for multiple fff+P's, and pai's f+K+G ate him up. After that, he smarted up when using SDE and he successfully EDTEG's the 270 again, then EDTEG's the df+P+G.
What this tells me is what when a player of mukky's caliber plays another 80+ percent opponent, there is no single right response when you're behind in frames... but in a tournament situation where it counted, he went for EDTEG repeatedly rather than trying to attack out of a frame disadvantage (which is what an elbow stagger boils down to).

I can hear some smartass now say "yeah and he lost!"
haha true, but he escape those throws, and he's still .07 percent better than that pai /versus/images/icons/wink.gif

 

Anyways, the correct answer for Lei_fei's situation which is similar to what Pablo's answer is, is that of a Linney or TELinney. The linney allows for the opponent to escape almost "ALL" followups in this situation. The linney consists of a "BACKDASH", "SIDESTEP", and "CROUCHDASH".

Backdash-allows you do escape short range followups lp's, hp's, and elbows.

Sidestep- allows you do escape longer range attacks like mid-kick, akira-elbows, and so on.

Crouchdash- cancels the sidestep and allows for you to block on reaction sweeps, roundhouses, and duck throws.

This can be used alot when an opponent is using an attack that gives +frame advatage but is too far away to throw. In this case Lei_fei is too far away to immediately throw and has great followup potential with attacks. The only reason you might not want to do it is if the opponent is dashing in and throwing you when you miss your linney's. In this case Scrap the crouch dash and add in or DTEG.


Next:
character: Jeffrey
situation: Pickup after being slammed!

 

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Next:
character: Jeffrey
situation: Pickup after being slammed!

[/ QUOTE ]

Struggle like a bitch and back dash with strict timing. Works in VF4 Ver.C. Haven't a clue if it's reliable in Evo. Mind you, it's ridiculously difficult to do. Generally, you get Jeffs buffering in a b,ff+P+G or doing another b+P for continued stagger. In Evo, although the b+P's range has been reduced, the opponent is still close enough to eat the b+P.

There are other options of course. One thing I used to do with Pai is struggle and then do an ITEG: Inashi-throw-escape-guard. I would normally use her df+P+K and add the f+P+G for safety. This got me out of a lot of trouble but it doesn't take long for a good yomi player to mess you up. Clem would reliably swtich up to --> ++ on me after I'd have escaped his throw once and inashied his b+P as well. ach, yomi, what can ya do? /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

cheers,

 

Creeder, throw doesn't reach if you don't dash in. That's why attacking instantly with knee or anything isn't very safe, percentage wise. /versus/images/icons/blush.gif


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Struggle like a bitch and back dash with strict timing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sexy response Llan. Have you been pulling it off in your play? It's not easy. /versus/images/icons/grin.gif

 

Llans answer is one of the best things to do.

One thing I want to point out about jeffreys pick up is that it really relies on what the opponent does and not what the jeffrey player wants to do.

Blondie basically destroys the nitaku game when he pulls off the struggle back dash.

 

Dealing with [DM] +:

IMO, the correct response is to backdash as far as possible. After that, the guessing game becomes easier. If Lei-Fei follows it with anything other than [DM] +, + , or +, he won't make contact. [DM] + can be dodged/reversed/blocked, while + is too slow and can be interrupted by an elbow even when at -7 disadvantage. Overall though, the best choice (IMO) is to backdash, wait and watch him closely.

 

imf, I'm noticing no reply from you.

I remember you saying something like "I pretty much EDTEG any time I'm behind more than a couple of frames" or something to that effect.
So what's your vote, EDTEG, low punch, or "other"?

Re the dash... I'll test it eventually, but let's assume for a second you need to dash no matter what (to throw at least, and blondie says to knee as well) ... with that in mind it's still the same guessing game, but with a dash in front. The staggered opponent sits and watches for the dash, and low punches, and the low punch wins before dash-attack or dash-throw can connect, is that the theory?

Substitute knee with crouch dash upper or f,f+K. Then your opponent cannot possibly use recognition or reflexes to distinguish between a hair of dash followed by an upper/puntkick .... and a hair of dash followed by a trip'n'hammer or hanging knee.

My point I guess is that while knee is not the perfect move to use in elbow stagger situations, a mid attack WILL beat low punch. In fact I bet quite a few mids will beat low punch. A lot of blondie's theory seems to hinge on really really good reflexes and recognition, but you aren't gonna correctly spot every kind of attack and react correctly. At the very least, nobody should claim they can beat elbow-backfist with reflexes and low punch alone. The average guy just has to guess correctly and EDTEG takes out better than 2/3rds of the guesses.

 

I love the idea of struggling like hell, then backdashing as quickly as possible. It defends against a wide variety of attacks and can be very useful if he tries to outguess you with or +. It's practically useless if Jeffry goes for a throw immediately though. I'm more inclined to E-DTEG in this situation but I-TEG sounds like a good idea also.

 

The correct answer for Jeffrey is a tough one. While struggling like hell, you want to struggle only using right and left then buffering the backdash ASAP. Struggle hard cause this shit isn't easy. But it does allow you to keep from taking big damage most of the time. Also DTEG to his front/body to evade b,f+p, shoot knee, ff+p, and knee.

NEXT:

character: ALL

situation: Getting your lp or similar attack blocked which results with you crouched and at a disadvantage -6 or less. i.e. Akira's LBF, Jacky's Backfist slap, Kage's d/f+p etc.

 

It depends, the last thing you wanna do is attack again, Good way to eat MC elbow(see blondie I finally remember). As Jeffrey I either low punch again in an attempt to beat any attack other than elbow or his low punch, or e-dte. You can also crouch dash back, to avoid elbow or low punch and throw. back dashing will get you thrown. Last, you can stay ducking if you think they will throw, the throw will whiff and you will have the advantage back.

 

For safety do or you could try EGTE...

 

UK guy is on top of things! YES, you want to crouchdash Backwards and bock mid on reaction using guard. This allows you to stay ducked so you don't take throws, move away to give yourself room to block Mid moves on reaction and get the advantage back. Great job replying guys =).


<font color="yellow">Character</font color>: Lion
<font color="yellow">Situation</font color>: Blocking his lp

 

If the Lion player knows what he's doing, then an elbow counter isn't my best choice in this situation because he can backdash and then sweep to avoid it. I'd remain crouching, then if he does FC f+P I'll either evade, block and throw or reverse. If he does a sweep, I block it and then elbow stagger.