Taking your percentages!

Is the FC, f+P blockable on reaction? If not you'll eat the backflip throw......

 

Good replies guys. The correct answer to this question is stance dependent. In open stance the FC_f+p will not beat elbow. So it is safe to say that lion isn't as powerful in Open stance as he is in Closed stance when fighting up close. Fighting lion I try to stay in open stance as much as possible.

We're gonna stop doing defensive options now and go straight into "FLOW-Chart" options. With each Character and Move, I'd like to discuss good followups for "BLOCK", "HIT", and "Major Counter".


<font color="yellow">Character</font color>: Jeffrey

<font color="yellow">Move</font color>: Low Punch

We'll start with simplicity. NOW REPLY!

 

Low punch

Blocked-crouch dash back.

Hit- low punch again

MC- Throw or delayed knee.

Its just that simple with jeffrey.

 

On Block: LP- LP / CD back looking to punish a wiffed LP or throw and stand to block an elbow then counterattack arccordingly. LPing again as part of your options will draw out these response attacks for Jeffry to counter. / CD forward to keep the pressure on and see what they do.

Normal hit: LP- LP / CD back same as above only now you're looking for them to dodge as well, and the chances of getting a whiffed LP response are greater. / CD forward looking for dodge and block LP or elbow responses into counterattack.

MC: LP- LP, FC upper, ff+pp, knee / Throw

 

Post MC low punch: i would say throw or elbow.

 

After getting hit by elbow a struggle followed by a Lunging Poke (43+P) ducks under repeat elbows...
(43+P)+ is also good against chicken Jacky and Jeff players. If they seem to CD back a lot there are other plays. The lunging poke is also a good flowchart starter. As everyone here knows Lion recovers low after his various evil lunging poke attacks. If it hits, you open a guessing game with your opponent. You can follow it up with a dashing upper ([FC] f+P) in closed stance or when confronted with a Jacky that insists on facing The Mantis in open stance; a sweep (2K+G) or a sidekick (3+K). Since Lion is crouching after the lunging poke, a dashing upper can easily be done against all in closed stance. If they are in open stance; no problem just do the modified open stance killer: 336+P + and get a nice floating Jack. If Lion has already screwed with the open stance JBs they may try to block or when they try a (GDTE[?]). Spank the bloke with 33+P+G or 33G9P+G ( Breast Grab) and smother the motherless bas3@d. All of this done with proper mix ups and Mykies above suggestion can give Lion a mixture of Mcers with attendant flashy air combos, watermelon stomps and throws galore. If the Jacky, Akira, Wolf or Jeff opponent is already anticipating the modified (336+P) dashing upper, switch to the sweep or (8K->6P) to reverse the tables and make em sweat and swear. /versus/images/icons/mad.gif /versus/images/icons/shocked.gif The sweep is very effective since human players usually don't anticipate 2 low attacks in a row. You will know that you are in the zoneand you own them if they screach: <font color="yellow"> You cheesy cheap @#$&^%!</font color> Once you have conditioned your big lug of an opponent to anticipate the sweep and crouch dash modified mantis dance of death, go for the sidekick. As they struggle out of the 3+K Lion has a few wonder-filled options that <font color="orange"> chibita-san</font color> has shared with <font color="#666666"> The Brotherhood </font color> . Among these I admire the mantis geek that goes for either: 4+P+K ( risky) or 2+P and throw of choice initiated as they complete their frenetic struggle. UK guy has mentioned another good option against the stance twitcher: Lion's variation: Hold down and smoothly roll into (1) downback. This is particularily effective after 3+K and Lunging Poke as it will not only move Lion back and down but will give him a stance switch. Thx for this thread BO. Props for your shared Jacky strats: I use 'em at the arcade. I have always been amazed at accomplished players generous sharing of effective tactics. Many more cerebral cerebrations Blonde_One. All of the above is easy to do with a little practice,so, practice against human opponent and enjoy.

 

I am finally getting a chance to post, here's my take on the situation.

Block: back crouchdash, block mid on reaction.

Hit: LP again for the potential MC, Backsquatdash for a B+p for punishing the lp, or if they consistently do nothing then throw.

MC: This is where Jeffrey starts to hurt you, FC_d/f+p upper, ff+pp, Throw. Again the only time I do knee is if I see a dodge only then do I do the knee, if your going to effectively play percentages.

Good answers all around!

<font color="yellow">Character</font color>: Lau

<font color="yellow">Move</font color>: "Elbow"(without crouch stagger)

 

Lau's elbow blocked: Either, + (works great against P -> throw), / to punish LP, E-DTEG, +, or simply guard /versus/images/icons/smirk.gif .

Hit: P, LP -> backdash -> , /, +, or .

MC: Same as above except you can now gamble with a throw attempt, since you now have +6 advantage and the opponent's natural reaction is to guard.

 

Is this jacky's options after lau elbow?

If so ...

1. If this is a lau who is fond of f+P, P (i.e. me) train yourself to crouch immediately and throw the whiffed second punch or possibly try a FC upper. In theory the FC upper is fast enough to MC the palm if you had good reflexes and reacted to the elbow immediately.

2. Lau players who rarely use f+P,P.
-vs. a Lau a who predictably EDTEG's after blocked elbow:
crouch dash and delayed df,df throw (or use jacky's 'third throw')...
-vs. a lau who low punches predictably:
low punch if you're conservative... Worst case scenario is it's blocked, but it won't be interrupted, and you might score a MC low punch.
If you like gambling or are positive the low punch is coming, f+P,P. I don't think you have enough frame advantage to knee or beat knuckle.

If the elbow hits:
If the lau did f+P,P you're probably eating the second punch. If they didn't.. the f+P probably MC'd. It's not a guaranteed throw situation, but f+P (MC) throw is a popular tactic among lau and jacky players. If you can spot this habit in your opponent, Jacky can (at least) try for P-throw. You can theoretically just knee and minor counter the whiffed throw for an easy 80 point combo, but I know blondie hates answers involving the knee.

If the lau has no predictable pattern after the elbow jacky should EDTEG.

 

I'm digging this thread...time to raise my hand I suppose.
block: E-DTEG
hit: frames are even here so moving to p or lp or trying another elbow would, in a fair number of circumstances, not be bad.
counter: Lau wants to grab.

In all cases though, a simple technique to gain advantage from the elbow is to, immediately before or immediately after performing the f+P, slap your opponents controller (or, barring the presence of a controller, the back of their head) while yelling "YAAAHHH" in your best Lau voice.

 

LOL, sanjuro got me laughing. Good replies all around. DRE pretty much said exactly what I would have said and everyone else generalized the same thing, good job.

For anyone just coming in, we're jumping into "FLOW-CHARTING". I list the character and their move, you give me "FLOW-CHART" options for this move on BLOCK, HIT, and MC! Okay.

<font color="yellow">character</font color>:Akira
<font color="yellow">move</font color>:Jab(standing)

This is a GOOD one =).

 

Blocked (+2):
Akira's main tactic is to prevent the opponent from crouching as much as possible. Once this is established, his jab becomes that much more effective. Akira's has +2 advantage on a blocked jab, so what you want to do is buffer DE or SDE in an effort to MC the opponent. If either one of these moves MC, then you'll either float the opponent (DE) or stun them(SDE). If they continue to block, use -> throw. Once the opponent adjusts and begins to LP to regain initiative, it's time to use -> ++-> SPoD. If you anticipate a high jab, use ++, -> DJK. If you're really sick and want to make sure they have no chance to interrupt, just use -> m-dblpm.....risky though. /versus/images/icons/wink.gif

Hit (+5):
Same options as above except a buffered DE/SDE will interrupt just about anything. Also, -> throw comes into play here.

MC (+10):
This is where Akira really shines. At +10, so many options open up. There's -> throw, -> DE/SDE, -> yoho, -> m-shrm. Hell, even -> SPoD if you've been practicing. /versus/images/icons/cool.gif

Finally, there's always -> PIT to punish E-DTEG.

Edit: If you get a chance, check out a recent Daioh clip named "daioh_ero021012_6b.wmv". About 2 1/2 minutes into it, a 92% Akira comes in and just destroys the opposition with these tactics....more or less.

 

What you do after blocking Akira's high jab??


Put your head between your legs, kiss your ass good bye, and pray he doesnt get his elbow stuck in you when it hits.

LOL Not trying to ruin the thread, just thought this one needed some humor, seeing as how powerful akiras high jab is.

 

I have one situation people sometimes have trouble with.... What to do, as the defender, after Akira's ST single-palm?

 

My guess would be to backdash. That way if Akira tries to throw again instead of buffering the guaranteed m-dblpm, he will whiff. If he tries a delayed SPoD to punish a possible E-DTEG, that will whiff also.

 

You know your stuff Dre. /versus/images/icons/grin.gif

 

Ok, I might as well submit my own scenario:

<font color="yellow"> Character:</font color> Kage

<font color="yellow"> Situation:</font color> Kage's opponent rises from the ground after a throw/attack.

As Kage, which okizime techniques should you use?

I've got my own theories, but I'd like to hear everyone else's.

 

IMO: it depends on which way the opponent is facing.

Face down, head away: I'd do u+k+g, for the reason that from this position the opponent would be inclined to low rising due to its non linear properties.

Face down, head twards: Guard on reaction for most characters, Serious Frame disadvantage for rising attacks blocked from this standpoint.

Face up, head away: u+k+g, again they'd be risking alot to do mid rising from this position low rising is there best option.

Face up, head towards: u+k+g again, same as before.

I don't play Kage seriously but have dabbled with him in the past. Of course you can always do the "Flying NINJA" move. Not sure the command. =).

 

Right on the money. Usually after any of Kage's throws, the opponent ends up lying in a position that only allows semi-circular mid rising kicks which can be reversed with Jumonji stance. Since experienced players are aware of this, they'll use the low rising kick instead which is usually a low crescent. This can be avoided with uf+K+G (as you pointed out) as well as JM ff+K which staggers. ff+P+K+G has very high priority and is very good for interrupting both mid and low rising kicks. It's very risky and should only be used to end a match IMO. Another technique is to jump over the downed opponent so they kick in the wrong direction and then use one of Kage's many BT attacks.

 

Very instructive thread /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
Sorry but I would like to go back to defensive options.
My scenario is the Folowing:
<font color="yellow"> You were thrown by Wolf's Pendulum Lariat (HCB+P+G, P+G) and wolf goes for the double claw (d+P+G) follow up, what would you do ?
</font color>

This is a sequence that is pretty frequent facing wolf and I still don't find a good defensive solution /versus/images/icons/crazy.gif