Version C Tier List

Those were some good responses, Srider, Myke, Ice-9, you guys have good points with merit to them but Srider brought up something that I was thinking about this morning:

"Could it be that although most SF players, Tekken players and even DOA players can admit that their game is unbalanced... could it be that there are people that believe that VF5 is perfectly balanced?"

If this is not the case and all you Kage players who are defending Kage do admit that VF5 is NOT perfectly balanced, then, what is your point?

Seriously, Myke, if you admit that VF5 is NOT perfectly balanced then your point is moot. Because that would mean that one character is more powerful (even if it's slightly) than some other character.

Edit:
Good point, Genburgs about the only people defeding Kage are Kage players XD and good point, Hyunster, we must have all been writing our responses at the same time, haha.

 

I'd say that at "our" level of play (generally westerner / low skill), character selection is actually pretty important. Characters with safe, easy to execute, damaging options are a big deal, especially when opponents don't have the skill or experience to consistently deal with them. Unless you can answer so-called complainers with "just do XX", it's not sour grapes. Character balance is less of an issue than in something like third strike, but it's still a factor.

I'd like to think that too, but the relative proportion of "successful" lei-fei (and, yes, lau) mashers on xbl argues against that ideal . . .

I haven't played much lau, but are you certain this is true for all of his P strings? I know some of them don't force guard, but it sure seems like plain old PP still does . . .

 

It's also rediculous to think that you lost a match at the character select screen.

(I'm not implying that you think that)

 

Nobody is saying that, that's a bit extreme.
I've played against people who have picked Dural and I still picked my regular character. I wasn't thinking "That's it, I might as well put the controller down."
What I was thinking was "Ok, I have to play a lot more careful against Dural bc of her strong offense and easy-to-do-yet-very-damaging throws."
It's not like "It's game over man!". I use Dural as an example bc she IS broken but she is not invincible... and neither is Dural's son.

 

I think the true test would for two CPU characters to go at it. If they are both "perfect" in their character usage wouldn't that be proof of one being more powerful? Just a random thought. Knowing how programming works I would think its a possible test.

 

Well in VF I guess so. But in other fighting games it's a reality.

 

KOD is exactly right here. Just look at the sheer number of Lei Fei players now. He is, by far, the most popular character on XBOX LIVE. I'm positive a lot of that was "can't beat em' then join em" mentality at work. People thought Lei was powerful when they played him so masses of people decided to use Lei as their main, same goes for Kage...

Claiming the game is perfectly balanced when it's not, just because you use the best character and feel bad about it, is really grasping at straws. The ONLY people in agreement are other Kage players who don't want to admit he's super strong either...

 

I'd put money down that most people take Lei because he looks cool more so than because they lost to him too many times.

 

It could be that Lei is easy to mash with...
----

I'm sorry, but your posts give off a self-righteous-I-play-low-tier-you're-cheating vibes. I know, because I was there back in my SC/Tekken days (games with huge problems).

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*waits for when the finger goes back to Vanessa and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b_.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif; or will it point to Eileen or Lei-Fei next?*

Wait? Just because you can't land max damage combos or take guaranteed damage every time doesn't make online illegitimate... oh... nvm.

No worries there; I'm hoping for a new thread that'd show case "expert players" saying things about characters they don't know.

"Best /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif strings in the game, man."

 

Why are people bringing up online when it's shit and doesn't apply in a tier discussion? Online Lion is probably S tier. And anyone who thinks Lei is S tier due to the way online mashers play him is retarded.

And about Kage: Any character with a 100% damage throw can't be bad

 

Thanks for reminding us:
And what about that bitch, Vanessa?
It's like she's two characters in one or something, nobody can compete with that!
She is teh brokeded /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

P.S.
Alright, Sebo, don't get too crazy with this and derail this thread totally now when we finally got the Kage apologists (word?) on the ropes XD

 

Heh still works online despite your frame anal retentiveness. Strangely enough although Lion may seem that much better online
to you. I still tend to beat decent American lion players with
Jeffry. Are you saying I'm godly?

Now as the tones in here worsen lets get a bit civil and use good
common sense. Just because you play a character who may be the
best in the game doesn't mean you picked him BECAUSE of it. I know
I didn't pick Jeffry because I LIKE to struggle against better
characters either. A lot of you wouldn't even know who the best
characters are in VF if it wasn't spoon fed to you.

I'm just saying I'm an average player at BEST in american
standards. I've seen NOTHING by most Kage players that makes
me think he's so busted that I should bitch to the level that
I see people bitching on here.

Okay Kage is one of the best in the game? So what? Not like
his advantages are THAT unbalanced. I've played lions offline
who STILL rock. Do I think they are that much better of a player
than me because of it? No. If they played my character they'd
probably still win.

Better choices still make better players, why? There's still
movelist redundancy, and it's not like every move impacts your
game to THAT degree.

 

Oh, NOW you wanna get serious and go AGAINST our anti-Kage mob?
WTF TWP???
Well, you're too late, Mekahineyhoesugarman! We've got the Kage apologists cornered and they are about to hand over their precious Kage so that we can burn him at the stake like witch that he is. He must pay for all of those middle of the rings TO's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Seriously, one moment these guys will say "Yes, VF is not perfectly balanced." and then the next moment they're back to "All of the characters are of equal strength" OR "There's pros and cons to every character so it all balances out."
No.
It's either one or the other, there is no gray area to this question: Is VF5 perfectly balanced?.
The answer is, unequivocally and most indubitably, no.

 

the newest tiers for Ver.D text by 史永

Lei Kage Vanessa Lau Eileen Shun S

Pai Akira Wolf Brad A

Goh Aoi Jeffry Blaze Jacky B

Lion Sarah C

 

Hm, some interesting shifts, nothing really drastic or surprising to me except for Pai and Shun's placements. Those are definitely different from the last two ver.C tier lists.

D didn't change anything so I'm assuming they've just updated based on more observations/experience?

Thanks for that list Dennis -

 

I'm not anti Kage at all. I recognize his strengths and advantage over other characters from my play against other real people and their character choice, that's why I'm using him...

Notice a trend in the characters that I play? Eileen, Lau, Wolf, and now Kage...

That's right baby, I win at character select screen.

 

Ver C is the same as Ver D

I think they just update the previous evaluation~

 

I think it's futile for Kage players like myself to join these discussions as we are ultimately labeled as apologists even before we say anything. It's also immediately assumed by some people that we picked the character based on tiers (this goes for any players who picked the S tiers characters). It certainly wasn't the case for me when I picked Kage. Whether you believe me or not is up to you, it won't make me change characters whether they weaken him or he remains strong in future iterations. I enjoy playing him, and he happens to be one of the strong characters.

I don't think VF is perfectly balanced. I think it's balanced enough that in the end, the tier list is mainly for discussion imho, and doesn't affect outcomes of matches significantly.

Shinsodan away!!!!

 

Um... that's not it... where is your source?

Yanaga's rank is this


Yanaga Rank from Tougeki Damashi
S Lei, Kage, Vane, Lau
A Shun, Pai, Eileen, Wolf, Akira, Brad
B Goh, Aoi, Jeffry, Jacky, Blaze
C Lion, Sarah

Koedo Rank for comparison
S Lei, Kage, Eileen
A Vane, Lau, Shun, Pai, Brad, Akira
B Goh, Jacky, Blaze, Wolf, Aoi, Jeffry
C Sarah, Lion

 

I don't know how to translate this, sorry~

劇魂Vol.9 VF5 VERSION D, and it's just updated yesterday.