Version C Tier List

Lau is definetly strong in VF5 but no can deny the fact taht Lei Kage, Eileen and Vanessa are S ranks

 

How is Kage S tier? Really... I don't know, so if someone can explain that would be great. Thanks!

 

It's all about to be obsolete /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

Kage is S++++

 

He fights in pajamas.

 

Kage is most definitely S+ tier... Sorry. Massive, tricky move set with nasty, top-level striking game and the incredible TFT= VF5 super character. 9P+G catch throw etc, etc...

 

LOL, I don't use Kage, but I don't get it. Except for the ring out ability, TFT just sucks. It allows "average damage" combos at best /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif But hey, whatever, I don't use him anyway.

 

Alot of moves go under his mids because his mids are higher up off the ground than most. Some of those same mids and his stronger mids are also fairly slow in speed. 3PP is slow enough in execution that it can get elbowed during nitaku. His moveset is extremely unsafe alot of which leave him more than launch counterable.

Alot of his moves are single limbed making him easier to reverse, his faster mids get raped by sabaki's. His elbow only leads into his stances, therefore his elbow has no canned followups making it much easier for opponents to retaliate.

He's high risk high reward, the same tactics he can use to win a round he can lose the round. i.e. 66PKG.

If you know how to TE, and escape TFT, his nitaku damage becomes reduced.

Alot of his game can rest on his half circulars because of the threat of TFT.

If you lacking defense fundamentals using Kage, when your moves get guarded you get beat on.

 

Kage is safe, evasive properties in moves, and has great ringoutpotential. Thats about it. Kage is strong, but not S-tier imo. He just lacks the damage and punishment ability. Eileen is similarly even safer and fast, but does even weaker damage and is handicapped by range. I think safety is overhyped in the tier considerations by japanese, meaning they measure risk/reward factor and safe characters get higher status just by being safe. Personally I feel that Lei and Shun should be alone in S-tier. Both of them have huge damage potential on top of everything else.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He's high risk high reward, the same tactics he can use to win a round he can lose the round. i.e. 66PKG.</div></div> Uh what?

 

Uh what? </div></div>

If you go to KO someone with 66PKG for example, it might not knock them out, so they get hit and get up and side crumple Kage and take half his life off. Or, Kage could use the move trying to push you out of the ring only to have it sidestepped sending him out instead of you.

Also take another example with moves like 46P+KP in some juggles to ring out, will have Kage break the plane before his opponent, so he'd be out of the ring first.

Weak damage??? Uh what?

 

I don't think safety is the deciding factor between Lau and kage.

Kage has a half circular that knocks down on normal hit. TFT for RO ability over half fence and middle of the stage on open stage. Mid full circular, mid upper class attack that launches, launcher with evasive properties, multiple stances, better dodge attack, more throw directions with guaranteed dmg, and catch throw.

Something as simple as Kage's 9K+G being more consistent than Lau's 9P is a good example to consider when you compare the two.

All of these things make Kage higher tier than Lau.

Lau is safe too, but the utility of his moves and source of damage is on a level below Kage.

 

I'm sorry, slightly off topic. But what defines those tiers? Thats the first time I have seen a tier list. Just curious how they place each character.

 

EVERY Kage player jumps into these ar3guments full force because the idea that they have an edge hurts their feelings... Kage is the best or 2nd best character in the game hands down. You can't just throw away the intangibles in the argument.

Kage's movelist is far trickier and more deceptive than Lau's by far, Lau is really more straight-forward.

Lion was really good in the VF4 days because he was so deceptive but without toned-down damage. The only way for SEGA to even him out was to nerf his damage and increase his recovery. His moves are deceptive so they have much more intangible value. Kage is the same way.

 

Not directed at anybody in particular. If someone said Lei was powerful, all of the (trillion) Lei Fei players would jump in and say, "Lei isn't powerful at all!" But we all know that's not true.

People always say, "you can escape the TFT so it doesn't matter..." I don't agree with that at all. Just the fact that he has the move, and you have to honor it, always changes your game.

I'm using Lion right now, so for example, I could not do a low attack the whole round but you would have to play as if you know I could at any moment, cause I can, so you have to be prepared to guard low at any time, in an instant. TFT is the same, you have to worry about that more that his million other weapons in certain situations so whether it's escapable or not is only half of the story.

It's like saying, "you can struggle out of staggers so staggers are useless." Obviously you can struggle out of staggers but that doesn't make them weak by default. Staggers are nasty and super-powerful, they give you a HUGE frame advantage and tie the other person up shaking their stick. Just because something is escapable or avoidable doesn't mean you'll avoid it automatically.

You have to use some of your mental resources and attention just to be ready to stop whatever move you're afraid of, so it has an effect on you're strategy whether or not they ever actually use said move. The fact that they COULD use that move counts for a lot too. It can't just be totally disregarded because it's not guaranteed to land every time, one TFT ring out and you're dead, end of story.

So when you're close to the edge of the ring vs Kage you can't just do whatever you want because you know that the round is OVER, INSTANTLY, if they catch you with it. So instead of attacking and playing your game, part of your mind has to worry about the TFT and that has a big effect on what you can or cannot do in that situation.

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So when you're close to the edge of the ring vs Kage you can't just do whatever you want because you know that the round is OVER, INSTANTLY, if they catch you with it. So instead of attacking and playing your game, part of your mind has to worry about the TFT and that has a big effect on what you can or cannot do in that situation.</div></div>
you should never just do 'whatever you want.' The fact that the gameplan changes based on your position in the ring is not a bad thing if you ask me.

 

I agree. There are several other characters that have this same advantage. So its definitely not unique to Kage's TFT.

 

I'm pretty sure (By pretty I mean 100% sure) that the reason Kage would be considered S tier over Lau is thanks to his 8P+K move.

 

I agree, I LOVE the positioning battles in VF5, just saying that the TFT is an especially strategy altering move. Even attempting a TE can be dangerous sometimes because you could whiff a throw if they don't attempt one on you when you think they will.