VF online- does it make or break VF?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">VF3 wasnt based on rock paper scissor *at all*</div></div>


The entire VF series is based on rock paper scissors with unequal rewards. Or are you saying that in VF3 throws beat attacks, attacks beat guard, and guard beat throws?</div></div>

i fail to see your context here.. first you are putting nitaku -- and rock/paper/scissors in the same line, and now you are talking about the proporties of VF attacks.

first of all, yes catch throw can beat attacks. yes, some moves are unblockable and yes you can stand there and guard if the opp tries to jab and throw you. and yes, in VF there's different tools in every VF to break the norm of the system.

VF3 had no jab-throw, because the throw proporties had no reach at all, it was like tekken's. it meant zero nitaku, if you wanted to throw your opponent, you had to dash in or wait for a garanteed opportunity much like the concept of zero frame throws. the way you talk about VF5 as if it has problems having a safer game holds no ground if you are only going to use the excuse of "it's not like VF4". --- when you can clearly see that no other VF was like VF4. infact VF3 was the most defensive of them all.

Vf5 has new tools to utilize, for example if your throw is losing to small advantage, you can either learn how to OM, or delay throw and get a zero frame one. there are proporties like forced side-turned situations that negate ducking, and plenty of options to force choice games and pressure.

and lastly, to many people that have posted about the convenience of finding players as apposed to playing them offline, i wasnt refering to this as subject. i was really talking about the difference between the atmosphere within a VF event like a japanese tournament or the atmosphere of a bedroom and an online menu.

 

If the lag is that bad you just have to ignore it and make a note not to play that individual again. If you are playing a noob flickbook Lei-Fei then just try your best, send bad feedback or a message telling him to stop downloading torrents while playing and then never fight him again. I've only had about 5 or 6 laggy matches and never a flickbook style fight. Obviously sometimes it's going to be quite bad but you just have to accept it and fight different lag-free players. It rarely happens anyway - I suggest a faster connection or sticking to players in south-central USA. The last time I witnessed bad lag was DOA Ultimate on Xbox. VF5 is excellent and as long as your connection is up to scratch, you will very rarely suffer from 'combo altering' lag (nevermind flickbook lag).

 

That's one of the reasons I was put off by VF4. I prefer the defensive style of VF3 (waiting for opportunities, throwing mistakes rather than using throws as quick unblockables etc) and still play VF5 in this way from time to time.

I've since got used to the faster, more offensive gameplay now in VF5 and have adapted to use a style that's a mix between offensive and defensive.

But yeah, that was one of the reasons I still prefered VF3 over VF4.

 

A few other thoughts from a purely casual level.
If it wasn't for online play I would never get to play or
experience fighting a high level competitor numerous times.
Let me explain. Gatherings while fun and challenging
for most of the "good" competition can be entertaining for the average player but turns the average player into more of a spectator. A glorified cheerleader (if your a rider) or more
like a guy watching a good football game.

Shit I can be a spectator and watch you tube. The japs got
this thing on lock!

The other day, I decided to play this Black Bauer guy for a solid hour I think. I'm sure he probably wouldn't give me THAT much time at a gathering since I lost pretty easily AND other people would be waiting. I'm not saying he isn't a cool guy in person BUT logistically its probably not going to happen.

Shit even on here dood posted after in the shoutbox "Hope I taught you some shun tricks while playing you." Does that sound
like someone who'd seek to play me at a gathering? Shit he "hopes" I learned something, at a gathering I'd be the info beggar/number in the win column. Online he can just beat my ass and be condescending though I'm sure the offline ass kissing is nice once in a while.

What I'm getting at is, no sweat he's at home, I'm at home. Comfort baby, he might think I'm an ass IRL and not WANT to
have me in his living room. I mean I'm all about meeting people
but online is just convenience if all you want to do is play the
game.

Now if you're using this as a social vehicle I'm not going to knock it but for just playing whenever shiiiiiiiet you can't beat it.

Unless your the type that "explodes" everytime you get a lag spike or count frames in your sleep.

 

I understand your view that you may not get a considerable amount of playing time in a gathering. I think this is where the VF community separates itself.

The majority of players you'll meet in gatherings will not turn you away based on your skill-level. My mentality in a gathering is to play everyone at least 10 matches.

Knowing Denkai (Black Bauer CTU) personally, he was not being condescending when with his comment. He genuinely wants you to get better. And when other veterans give you advice, we generally want you to get better.

About the topic, so far I am seeing mixed results perhaps it is still too early to say for sure how on-line is affecting it. I have met people on-line who seem to be the type that will attend offline gatherings and that's a really great thing. On-line can't replace offline gatherings for me, i'll continue to go as permitted by my schedule.

On-line does present a convenient tool to get back at the swing of things. I haven't touched the game for a month and now I don't have to wait till the next gathering to get my groove back.

 

I feel SugarMan's post is really enlightening - i have the exact same feeling only not with denkai but wih konjou. I mean, we live across continents, if we ever, supposedly, were to meet IRL it would have to be in a bigtime tourney were he'd probably want to play with some bigtime players. Not because he's condescending or anything but quite simply because there won't be enough time to play everybody for more than a couple of matches.

And, as i've posted before, lag or no lag, wakeup and okizeme setups are the same, so online does serve a purpose training-wise

 

Timing is very crucial to Okizeme, so it is obviously messed up by lag.

Also, everyone who has been in a gathering improved by leaps and bounds. On-line may help improvement but there are things that you may learn improperly on-line as lag creeps in. For example, i've seen beginners keep attacking on disadvantage without understanding the situation. Offline i'll be able to snuff their attacks consistently, on-line randomness doesn't allow me to do this, thus they won't learn to play the game properly.

 

But if all they play is online does it really matter?

On the subject of people being cool offline and playing everyone 10 times. It doesn't really matter if I get swept 10 times offline does it? Especially if you're THAT much better than I am. Online allows me to get swept as many times as he's willing to play me WHENEVER he's on.

Now don't get me wrong offline is the real deal but online is definately the next best thing and the only option if you want to
enjoy this game for a LOT of people. Offline gatherings are basically ridiculous unless your a hardcore player which believe it or not a lot of people on this site aren't hardcore. (Unless I'm really that good.)

As far as Denkai goes it doesn't matter to me if he was being condescending or not (hope means that he doubts my ability to realize what's going on.) I hope for world peace, which means
that for some reason I don't think it's going to happen and the world needs help. That being said my primary point is that the convenience of it makes playing people more tolerable whether you think they are an ass or not. Whether they stink or not. Whether they wipe their ass and touch the controllers or not.

 

Just as another perspective... I've found I play very few actual games at offline gatherings. Online is definitely the best venue for me to really sit down and play, and perfect my game. That said, I still learn an incredible amount at any offline meeting. Chanchai stands out in particular as a guy I could just talk to for a couple hours about the game, and learn an incredible amount. Just the number of damage opportunities and such that he was able to point out that I was missing, that had never even occured to me, were huge. But the only reason I'm learning to apply all that knowledge is cause of practice time at home, which is, at the very least, more enjoyable when I can play real people online, instead of just sitting around in the dojo.

I guess my point is that some of these comparisons don't really make sense to me. Offline and online play are incredibly different, and complement each other, more than compete with each other, in my mind.

 

The way the NYC crew handled gatherings here last year (from an outsider viewpoint) was that the player who lost would pass the stick around to whoever wanted to play. That way, people had a choice as to how often and when they wanted to play. If one person wasn't playing, he could always talk to one of the other players for chit chat or game tips. Flexible and fun way to play for all. And in DOA gatherings here, we do the same, but if there's a winner that's played a while, he passes it along after several matches and takes a break.

Offline's always better and more fun. Take advantage of these opportunities whenever you can. You learn more in a proper environment and have access to a group of people as well.

In tourneys, I'll agree that it's hard to get to play a diverse amount of people without several setups of a game. Offline gatherings just have a certain "chill and play" factor that online can never achieve IMO. Online is best for playing people you normally couldn't, which is a large player base compared to locals, which can help many people out. Different mediums for different experiences and reasons to play.

Take the best of both worlds whenever you can.

 

i can understand some of this within a big gathering according to who you get to play on a regular basis. however somebody who is winning against you i dont believe can train you..

learning the game by yourself will get you to face many opponents at one time, infact, it should be "where you test your understanding of situations", and less about how faster you can imput. in my honest oppinion. ¬

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But if all they play is online does it really matter?</div></div>

that will depend on what you would like from VF, if it is "to improve and become on a higher level", i personally dont suppose that's possible, both when the VF system is lagged, and the understanding of VF is distorted as mentioned about winning at disadvantage.

there's no use in a player talking over the mic about advantage and disadvantage if there's a different outcome onscreen, nor would a player benifit in watching where they went wrong, if it is a number of seconds behind what they are seeing. infact the whole view of the game is distorted.

if you would like to just play VF on a causal basis, then im sure online mode is hours of fun ¬ i think it depends a great deal as both online and offline use different prespectives of VF.

 

Online made the game for me, because now when I get time I actually want to attend gatherings. If 5 never came out on Live I likely never would have gotten into VF to this point, simply because we have no machines where I live and no one plays VF here.

 

I posted this over in Jide's "Thoughts on VF5" thread, but I also feel that perhaps the same thing could be added to this discussion as well. Apologies for the re-post. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

***

Last night I played my first few hours of VF5 on the Xbox360 - albeit on a pad as I wait for a stick in the mail. Got myself set up, and jumped right in to Ranking Matches, having really only played VF5 on 3 previous occasions at kbcat's (psst Jerky, thanks again btw). My opinion on the game itself is that it feels so much like VF4, that I would call it VF4FT2 - some neat new things that give us all something to discuss and theorycraft. For me, the fundamental difference, is this whole introduction of VF to the online world - something many of us argued would never happen. But here it is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

The question posed by others is about how this new way of playing VF will impact the NAVF scene. For many years, I have been a proponent of the development and support of the NAVF scene. I have been fortunate to have watched it evolve from the "Glory Days" of VF2 in the Toronto arcades, through the transition into a console-centric scene that started with VF3tb on the Dreamcast. The lack of accessibility in the arcades was a tough hit to the NAVF arcade group across Canada and the US and without the console versions perhaps we wouldn't be talking much on these forums today. Either way, consoles have proven to be the lifeblood of VF in North American much to the chagrin of a few of us arcade junkies who nostalgically wish it was different.

Last night, was simply awesome. I played like a complete nubcake on a pad, fighting with the controls and cursing at missed this and that and "omg, I can't believe I lost" was my motto for most of the duration. But it was amazing. It was amazing to fight against 5th Dan Jacky players with win:loss records of 1108:1242. 2300 matches thus far? This guy clearly likes the game, regardless of his current level of skill. And I have never heard of this guy, or the other 40 players that I challenged as I pad'ed my way to 1st Kyu. The variety of characters chosen, the customized look'n'feel that all these people have put some effort into, the availability of human opponents that are decent, some pretty good, some clearly beginners, was nothing short of astounding.

The fact of the matter is this: VF5 for Xbox Live has already had a positive impact on the NAVF scene. It has attracted a pool of players that no series of console gatherings or tournaments could ever have achieved. Sure, the quality of play could use help, but this is always going to be the case. The challenge for us who are 'in the know' and have been part of the community building processes in the past is going to need to be focused on building rapport, sharing knowledge, and harnessing a group of players we never considered in the past. I'm sure some of the veteran players out there can relate when I say that whenever we saw someone put a quarter into our local VF4:Evo or VF4:FT machine, we would get excited - "How good is he/she?" "Who's that?" "Are they new? Or just a passer by looking to get rid 0.5cents?". There was always a hope of the slim chance that this stranger was perhaps willing to stand around and talk about the game and put in some matches and be the "new guy" in our group of VFers. Now, this scenario, quite frankly, happens every 2 minutes or so on XboxLive. It's up to us to to grab hold of this opportunity and nurture the NAVF scene more than ever before.

XboxLive has changed VF, in my opinion, in a more positive way than any other aspect of scene development has in over a decade.

 

Llan, agreed. What's really encouraging is that I'm seeing a lot more creative and interesting players now than ever. Initially, it seemed like half the new players were all turtles/one trick ponys...

Best,

-Jason