VF5:R Location Test Report!

Hope a new vid with El Blaze shows up soon.I'm curious about the ground throw. When I play him now in VF5 I want to make a ground throw at some point, 'cause I played a lot with Goh before. And also the other changes. I read that the low punch is not that effective anymore for all characters, but El Blaze's VF5 low punch was not that good all the time, so maybe no changes for his "mini"-low punch.

 

I'm gonna interrupt all the insightful and thought provoking discussions thus far with some useless bitching about VF5:R Eileen.

I hope myke doesn't lock the thread because of this. Here goes.

Most of the crap below is taken from all the complaints posted by Japanese players on VFBBS (VF Board of Bull Shit) and Sanchan's blog (where there are lots of vids of him losing with Eileen cause the character sucks).

Anyways, I'll lay it down straight cause as an Eileen player, I'm going to change to Vanessa since I might as well quit if I continue to use Eileen in VF5:R. Here's why:

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>New Moves</span>
43P+K New mid that downs on CH. Possibly the new substitute for 6P+K
4P+K High
4P+KK Low followup that has a similar motion to 6PP2K
4K+G New high that can be cancelled into cancel moves
4K+GK Mid follow up that looks like Akira's K

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Cancel Moves</span>
214PP Not special high anymore, but has a different motion
214PPP New mid followup, pushes opponent away
214PK New mid followup
236K+G New mid cancel move, seems kind of useless atm
214K+G Two hits, mid->high, looks like her 9P+K+GK move

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Wari Moves</span>
8P+K+G -> K Low, crumples on CH
-> PPP Mid, Mid, Mid, can be cancelled after first hit
2P+K+G -> P Short range jump punch, maybe high, maybe mid, can stagger
-> K Mid, looks like her P3PK move, knocks down on CH

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Changed Moves</span>
6P+K Cannot go into cancel moves anymore
46K+G Crumples on CH
44P Leaves Eileen backturned
6PPK Mid, High, High, last K is the same as her PPPK

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Throws</span>
33P+G New throw that can be followed up with combos
46P+G New throw that looks like her 6P+G8K throw
6P+G6 PP6P no longer connects, but PPP does still
??? New wall throw when close to wall

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Other tidbits</span>
Slower ARM Speed
214P+KP 6P+KP236KKK combo the last hit doesn't connect anymore
46P+K Stagger is easier to struggle
236P+K3K Stagger is easier to struggle
2_3P+K 236KKK is harder to connect in open stance, but the evasive property remains the same
(bt)9K+G Seems like it pushes the opponent further away when it hits
46K Taken out


<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Personal Comments</span>

- Based on the info, it looks like Eileen has been weakened overall. The loss of 46K is a huge blow.
6P+K has lost almost all dmg potential due to no more cancel moves. Instead, it looks like 43P+K will be the main source for damage. This might make things easier for players who can't hit check 6P+K to do 236KKK. It remains to be seen how they differ in exe frames.
2_3P+K looks like it will remain to be about the same, so no problem there.

-Wari change is interesting, since as it is now in VF5 it's kind of useless. Seems like now wari is going to be useful because it opens up moves otherwise not possible.
Although moves like 2P+K+GP and 2P+K+GK seems useful, much of the appeal is lost since 46K is now gone.
I can only see the 8P+K+GPPP string being something useful due to the cancellable nature of it. Still, it remains to be seen if any of the hits can be followed by 236KKK for dmg.

-4K+G seems to have potential due to it being cancellable with possible mid followup. It depends on the exe speed and whether or not it's circular.

-Interesting change to 214PPP. Second hit is not special high anymore, and this is not a good thing. It remains to be seen what 214PK, the new mid followup, can cause on NH/CH. It might make the full string useful if this mid kick turns out to be rewarding on hit.

-New damaging direction with both 3 and 6 is a big change. 3 direction throw was generally useless in high level play, so this is a change for the better.
It's obvious that 6P+G throw was too redundant with the 6 option followed by PP6P, so this is changed. I can see 6P+G being used instead for RO and ring position purposes, and the new 46 throw for damage.

-Due to the weakening of her strike game, and the overall buff in throw game, it looks like Eileen is going to become a more balanced character in terms of throw/strike ratio.
Still, Eileen doesn't seem to have changed very much in her main game. She wasn't very reliant on ARM, and 46K is often nullified by knowledgeable or fast struggle players. The big loss is the change to 6P+K, which means that Eileen will instead rely more on nitaku for damage instead of through her cancel move guessing games. If 43P+K turns out to be a good substitute for 6P+K, then the only thing that would affect her game is the inability to mix flip throw into the mix.

One possible weakness from the changes is that by diversifying her cancel moves and wari moves into specific sets of moves, it will be easier for opponents to anticipate her mix up and options.

I'm not sure how the wari additions will help her strike game, but at the very least the new moves give a new purpose into integrating wari in the gameplay.

 

I'm scared of the changes but you know maybe it'll be fine. As long as these new additions give eileen enough to make up for her losses, which will remain to be seen. I reserve judgment but I'm cautious now.

 

I think Srider was being sarcastic... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Next loc test (or any info regarding) etc hasn't been announced right? I'm dying to see Kage's new tft forward or halfwall throws.

 

Whoever is fortunate to go to the next location test should try this out with Jean Kugo. P+K+G, 4 3 K+G, 4 or 6 K. If it works it works if it doesn't, then oh well.

 

A SPoD-ESQUE Jean move? Oh yeah......I've just found my new favorite

 

Lets get this straight, before I LOSE IT, has vanessa's HAND HOLD neutral reversals been removed, or her active 4P*K, 3P*K reversals been removed? If its the former, I can deal, but the latter? Hmmmmmmmm.
Oh man, its hard not to go ballistic hearing Vanessa got her reversals removed. FINE. GREAT. There's no use crying about it, it's practically done.

But really, what was the logic behind this? She's too powerful? And Akira isn't? Yes, Nessa is my second favorite, next to GOH, but damn it seems too arbitrary. I would have accepted a revesal damage reduction over this. Like someone said, Nessa's reversals don't do much damage. But for me it was never about the damage, it was the satisfaction of sending a non-verbal "fuck you" to the Lau - Eileen ppp spammers. And Nessa's mid kick reversal was priceless, oh well I can soak in the nostalgia in replays.

edit: Come to think of it, the animation for Nessa's high kick reversal was hot too!: She'd grab their foot and do a backward roll! WTF!

 

If Vane's reversals get removed then I would really like to know from SEGA WHY they are removed??? Like ZenTou said, if they are going to town-down Vane then why don't they town-down Akira as well? Sounds to me like SEGA is playing favorites... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

 

Youre right Myke, youre right. Now I have to stop laughing at the Sarah players who've been complaining. Sega probaly thought " Well Vanessa has the hand hold revesals, why does she need 4P*K reversals?" Either that, or they felt she should use her Sabakis more. Besides her completely different styles, what made Vanessa UNIQUE in VF5 are her intrude hook moves : moves that can be intiated while still holding block. Without her active reversals, Nessa users will have to rely those moves more, and thats what the designers originally intended.
/ENTER Zentou's unreasonable, irate alter ego. THIS FUCKING SUCKS !!!! I ALMOST FORGOT how cool Nessa's high kick reversal was !!!!! I'll never be able to do that backward roll again!!! ITS called DEFENSIVE style for a reason, you fuckwads!!! Oh Vanessa got two new moves to replace her FOUR SUPER COOL reversal animations? Unless those two new moves are a FIREBALL and a HURRICANE KICK, FUCK THOSE new moves!!! This is DOUCHE BAGGERY!!!! Somebody wake Yu!!

 

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Something that SEGA deffinitely should hear.

 

not that big of a loss imo

Ill miss the 1p+k on SK but that's it

 

It's been discussed to death...

A new launcher and a new low attack >>>>> risky stuff like a reversal.

It isn't even a loss.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif//forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif needs to be used more anyway; scary stuff.

 

Plus if Nessa tried that backward roll reversal with TAKA, he'd FLATTEN her.

 

when I was a complete newb 6p+k,p was like one of my top three moves and I stayed away from 4,6p+k like it was the plague

now I'm loving 4,6p+k whenever I see the chance and I rarely ever use 6p+k,p .. =/

 

lmao, that would be true. Her reversing Taka part. XD

 

As I use Vanessa a LOT, I thought I'd give my 2gr (Polish currency)... here it is:

Fuck reversals. If you are one of those ppl that bitch about it, then you probably should pick another character, as Vanessa isn't for you /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

The addition of 2 moves is gonna be great!

The moves Vanessa has in DS, the ones with holding /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, should be fixed IMO. I use hold/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif//forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif a lot, as it has GREAT evasive properties, however I think it's unfair when this moves evades a throw attempt. I'd like to have that fixed, what do you think? (with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif//forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif it's okay, as it dodges less and she crouches a bit... needs counter for a crumple as well, so no bitching here)

 

Wait, Vanessa had reversals? How the hell did anyone figure that out?