VF5 sighting in Chicago!

Ok just got off the phone with Ontario Mills Gameworks
in Socal. Asked them if they had a list of upcoming games to the location. Girl comes back and says no and then I ask what about VF5...have you heard anything of it arriving?

The guy who picked up the phone seemed to be a manager(was transferred twice till I got him) said they placed an order for the game, but it comes down to what SEGA decides.

He now knows about the VF5 in Chicago and said if Chicago got the game then it would either be located there or after the test it would be moved to different locations.

Take that info for what its worth, but if you live in socal bug the shit out of them about VF5 and maybe it will work

909-987-4263

 

I'm fully aware that no amount of talk here will ever get VF5 released in the Arcades here or anywhere else. I also know that VF doesn't have the audience that other arcade titles, like Initial D, enjoy, but...

every time I hear people defending Sega for this, it just makes me want to puke. North America doesn't constitute the world of VF players outside of Japan. Why should players in Asia, Europe, Australia etc all eat a dick for nearly a full year while Japanese gamers get to play VF5? The same players that for YEARS have paid good money to support the series, tens of thousands of real fans of the series. We've all seen the recently posted sales figures for console versions, hundreds of thousands of copies of those games sold. Worldwide OUTSIDE OF JAPAN, combined sales over the million mark. TONS of people are obviously interested in this game, in one form or another.

Screwing your fan base because "it makes good business sense" is no way to run a business. I'm a tattoo artist. Check out this scenario. let's imagine you're one of my customers, and you've been getting tattooed by me for 10 years. You've been loyal to my shop, encouraged your friends to come here, and spent thousands of dollars inside my business.

This is a reality where I work, I have customers like this. Sega does too, in VF fans.

Now imagine that the latest tattoo I put on you didn't feel so hot the day after you had it done. Then it started to scab up, and a lot of the color ended up falling out w/ the scabs. You come back to me to talk about it, at which point I explain "Well, it could be a couple of things... I stopped using the needles I import from Japan, which are tempered and hand made for sewing kimonos. Those needles cost me $400 for 1000 needles. I started using some cheap stainless ones I can get locally, which were on sale for $20 for 1000! I've also started sterilizing and re-using the needles. It puts some wear on them, with the steam and pressure and all, but look at all the money I'm saving!"

these descriptions and figures are real, btw. I care about my customers, and my work, so I go out of my way to use the best equipment I can find.

Forget trying to localize the VF.net features for foreign markets (even though Sega themselves have shown that customization cards can figure into a profitable game, with releases like Initial D, Derby Owners Club etc stateside, let alone Tekken 5). Forget fancy cabinets, as this shows:

http://www.segaarcade.com/pdfs/hod4/lindberg-pos.pdf

the lindburg doesn't need anything special to run, at all. 15pin monitor cable, standard stereo speaker cables (as confirmed by people in Japan who've played VF5 on older cabs). Build the cabs in the US, like the old cabinets for VF 1 and 2 were built here, and sell the game as a board kit as well.

Translation of the game? What needs to be translated, "Insert Coin, Waiting for Challenger, Champion, Challenger, Champion <# of wins tag> Wins!"? The credits?

Nuances of the game explained to employees... do you think there's anyone at SegaArcade US that understands the "nuances" of Fist of the North Star? While we're on the subject, not only do I see that game as one which probably DOES require some real text translation work, but also is a game whose audience is much smaller than VFs, yet still got a US release. the only real marketing for any of these games that I've ever seen done is in the form of simple flyers. People who own/manage arcades do not give a SHIT about the nuances of the games, all they care about is how many coins go in the hole.

Sega should have released VF5 outside of Japan in the arcades because it's the right thing to do, for the fans. Think about how much money Sega has flushed down the toilet on things like Cyber Generations, how much money was lost on the Saturn and Dreamcast. Shenmue... I've heard stories about Sega execs expense-accounting $20,000 in one NIGHT on strippers and booze! I suppose that makes good business sense?

this makes good business sense to me:

http://www.coinopexpress.com/products/ma...aders_5312.html

even at double this cost (which I think was what it was when the game was new, still, these are new units). Part of the reason Tekken is so much more popular than VF is because truly good marketing and fan service are just as important, if not more so, than how good your game actually is. It's self-evident.

As is the fact that the VF scene worldwide grew exponentially w/ VF4 over what it was w/ VF3. Rather than reward the fans worldwide, Sega was rewarded only players in Japan, because they are assholes who don't care about us. Please stop defending them, when we're the ones getting screwed.

 

I don't think anyone is defending them. The only thing that I think llanfair and myself at times try to explain is the logistics behind why things are the way it is.

Fist of the North Star did not get a US release.

I know that we are the ones getting screwed, and I find no reason to defend Sega, but the sad fact is that even when VF was on sale in the US, no one bought them. Blame the arcade owners. Instead of complaining about Sega, why not complain about Namco arcades, or Dave & Busters and the like, for not buying VF when they were available. This is why VF is now considered a bad investment in the US arcade market.

 

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because americans are cheap and rather wait for the "console version"

no arcade operator is suicidal enough to cover 15k in machine costs


[/ QUOTE ]

Alex, I don't see the point in just pulling meaningless statements out of your ass and posting them. These comments have nothing to do with reality.

Americans are cheap, and want to play the console version? You mean VF5, right? The game that every person will have to spend at least $600 to play on the cheap PS3, with the control pad? Paying $500 for the system, $50 for the game, plus $44 sales tax on $550. Now compare that with 50 cents a play, that's 1200 games in the arcade, and if you're winning, the number of matches goes up. If you added all the fights won and lost on your Jacky and Lei Fei cards from playing FT and Evo, I don't think it'd come up to 1200 matches, and you go to the arcade almost every week. People could play in the arcade for YEARS and not spend $600. I usually spend between $5 and $10 a week at AI. Even at $10 a week, it'd take me over a year to spend the cost of the PS3.

$15,000? the only way I could see this happening is if they forced arcade owners to buy some kind of deluxe cab, which is totally unnecessary. I think they learned their lesson on this one w/ VF3 in the states, as every US version of VF4 I've ever seen in an arcade was sold as a kit. I ONCE saw an Evo full cabinet at a distributor, but it was very simple.

I think AI probably paid between 7 and 10k for the house of the dead 4 machine they have, as they bought the simplest one. that's a game that even the simple version DOES require special equipement, so the cost is necessarily higher than what a fighting game requires. There's no need for VF5 to cost 15k.

I don't think American VF fans are cheap, and I think almost anyone who's thinking about trying the game for the first time would rather go to the arcade and spend $10-20 checking it out than buying the game and the PS3, or even $50 just for the game.

 

I see value in each point - but a little reality is needed.

The arcade operators are under pressure to change. Also the sales team that support them are under attack. The old school arcade industry has faught a corner that "...no one wants to play these Japanese games..."

They then got caught out by Inital D and Tekken (and even Soul Calibur 3) and now try hard to avoid explaining why so many players want these games.

Just look at this situation - your the arcade sales director at SEGA USA and you tell your Japanese boss "..hey no one will want to play VF5 and no one will pay for a cabinet, VF.Net link, IC Card or Terminals!" Then the next week the unit is at E3 and is swamped and the phone starts rining off the hock - there is only so much you can do to hide this from your Japanese boss.

This is a reason that The Stinger Report gets so much flack from certain US sales reps "...encouraging operators to look at games they can't get in North America!" Read - hey buddy stop showing stuff that we told our boss we could not sell!

This is the same sales team that said no one would want to buy 'Afterburner Climax' and now they are looking at the second largest pre-order in arcade history!

Mark my words, VF5vA may get a US showing at ASI'07!

All the best

 

Brian...you cited relatively decent console sales (although they are nowhere near GTA, Halo, etc. levels) as evidence that there is interest in VF, but isn't the relevant stat arcade sales? I wonder what the arcade sales are for VF4 and Evo, which were released stateside? Going by anectdotal experience, it doesn't seem like very many.

I think most (not all, but the vast majority of) people are interested in VF on a 50 bucks you own it versus a 50 cents per play perspective. Your PS3 counterpoint isn't a valid one because the same vast majority of people buy VF because it is already available on a console they already own; only hardcore people like us buy the console for VF. Also, VF5 hasn't even been released yet on the PS3 so it's hard to say how successful it would or would not be.

Note that I haven't defended Sega at all in the above. What I'm doing is disagreeing with the blame you have placed on them. There's no one TO blame--it's simply market reality. Arcades are generally dying, and fighters are moving on to consoles.

Think Namco is any different? What happened to Soul Calibur 3? Where is Capcom and Street Fighter 4? Mortal Kombat? And on and on.

 

Ice-9 = you say "...Arcades are generally dying..." well at E3 there were more new arcade games on show than ever before, Sega, Namco, Konami and Taito arcade sales all up.

Now if you mean the old style arcade venue, that is already dead and gone, replaced by the Cucke's, D&B, GW etc venues. More arcade machines were sold into the US market than previously in 2005, and this year will look even better.

You find that amusement has moved into the bars, cinemas and mixed-use venues. But this dose not get the coverage as most of the consumer media don't like covering competing sectors.

I just get so heated by the comments on arcade being dead when I see the passion in Inital D, VF5, ABC, Tekken, Time Crisis etc.

 

but they are dying -- no one is saying that game interest is dying.
chicago alone - i used to visit 5 different arcades ; both family owned and in malls and they are no more. the ones that conintue have outdated games with a token initial D / SC / Tekken game in it. No real arcade (like infinity in LA ,, love that place). those are rare now here and your only options are D&B / GW or chucky cheese.

One thing that may encourage arcades like these to VF5 or Phy-psi as i saw this week is that they are technically more advanced (touch screen , HD, etc) and their customers somewhat expect something new and cool to play with their beers. Plus these larger venues can charge more per game since they nickel and dime you per game versus the standard arcade where we still somehow expect them to charge 25 or 50 cents per game. (still recall vf3 $1 games). So these reasons may encourage them to get vf5 , and i think they are just getting info.

That is why im pumping money into the machine so they know there is an interest .

 

That's interesting to know 2005 was a good year. I think as a trend over the past 10-15 years, however, it's pretty clear that arcades have significantly declined. Not just in the U.S., but also in Japan, most Asian countries, Europe, etc.

Perhaps we've bottomed out here in the U.S. and it can only get better going forward?

 

[ QUOTE ]
Screwing your fan base because "it makes good business sense" is no way to run a business.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that what you've said is very true, Bryan. However, it is not an accurate statement to describe the state of the Virtua Fighter fanbase. North America is but a blip on the radar screen. They could ignore the continent entirely and likely have little impact on the overall profit margins.

Asia is a different story. Europe is a different story. They are different, and frankly outside of what I said earlier, simply because they are not under the jurisdiction for arcade sales and distribution of Sega of America. The "client" in Sega of America's eyes is not of any substantial mass for it to be even considered as a conversation.

[ QUOTE ]
Build the cabs in the US, like the old cabinets for VF 1 and 2 were built here, and sell the game as a board kit as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed - sure, that's a great solution. Except for the money invested in all the extras and features and promotional toys that came with blood, sweat, and tears by teams at SoJ. While it may be nice to simply take the hardware and run, I can assure that it would contradict the business model of the overall organization. There are investors to satisfy. All it takes is one guy on the board to say "WTF, VF5 looks like crap on those pressboard cabinets in the US, it's making us look like we have no innovation and we're not competitive in our market!", and presto, no VF5-light for North America.

[ QUOTE ]
Nuances of the game explained to employees...

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear. I meant employees of SoA. You have to promote the game somehow, right? Someone somewhere has to learn what's up with VF5 and put the magical marketing spin on it so the SoA booths and sales reps have the right message to ensure hefty North American sales. While it may seem trivial, this costs money and takes a lot of time.

[ QUOTE ]
Sega should have released VF5 outside of Japan in the arcades because it's the right thing to do, for the fans.

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember, we're not talking about some backalley sideproject of Sega's that we're hoping hits a North American arcade. We're talking about the flagship of all of Sega's arcade releases in 2006/2007. The big one. Sega cannot simply create a dumbed down version for the 1500 interested fans in North America who simply want the game for the gameplay.

It is unfortunately very good business practice for them NOT to.

 

Sorry to break off the debate, but who is all going this weekend to gameworks? I should be bringing 4gotnkazama, myself, and two new bloods that are highly interested in vf5. Post up and let me know, so we can all get some games going.

Peace

 

remember tim,, to avoid traffic , your best bet is:
take 55 to 355 north to 290 north and you're there so you dont drive through the city.

ill be there and i think some of the guys from chi-crew may go as well

 

K_O, MADrox, were you guys ever at Gameworks on Friday or Saturday? I was there both nights and spent a fair amount of time on the game with my friends nearby, especially last night. If you saw ANYONE on the DDR Supernova machine, I was there with them. If a short black dude with dreads, glasses, and a greenish-brown bandana sound familiar, you ran into me, then!

 

Hey Tim,

Nice games. I loved playing you on satuday and HG on thursaday because im able to see new crap come out.. Sorry i didnt want to loook at any move lists but i love the feeling of 'what the hell was that,, it was cool' and trying to figure it out like the old days before internet ; so i hope you didnt get insulted when i'd say 'i dont know what that was' because i really didnt.

as far as characters,, everyone has very cool stuff. Blaze i can see become buttton masher character (like newbies) similar to how lau and pai were,, but get beat up with skilled players.
i'm starting to like eileen a bit more now,, i just have to figure out her monkey stance to play with that --- maybe ill cheat soon and see the command.

but it was fun and your input and knowledge was appreciated. hopefully more of our freinds will not bail on us anymore.

Interstest:
As we were able to tell,, we had a few onlookers at times and they did find the game interesting yet no one else wanted to try. this was the case on the 'all play' thursdays.. we'll see as time goes on.

THursday session again coming and KageH and co.. said their on for that day.

 

Faustino-

Good games and thanks for making time to play vf5 with us. My friend kendal aka zantetsu jacky and I had a really goodtime at gameworks. We must of had 10-11 hours of straight vf5 all to ourselves. My only regrets were the bonus points on the cards that didn't apply to vf5 and psy-phi and lack of players, but I see that being resolved all in due time. As far as you wanting to learn from choosing to play natural or studying is all up to you and no it didn't bother me one way or the other. I was just trying to help and sorry if I came off the wrong way. I am going to call sega tomorrow and see what their plans are for vf5 and hopefully from there we can plan another chi-town outing. I'll post up my first impressions of vf5 very soon.

SliceOfPai-

You should of come over and beat our heads in with your pai. Did you see anyone playing vf5 while you were there? The description you gave kinda sounds familar, but my eyes were glued to vf5, so I can't say if I saw you for sure, but I do remember alot of people on supernova all night. I also did see another big crowd around psy-phi. Chicago gameworks seems more of a ddr style place then a fighting game atmosphere. Hope to see you when we make it out that way in the future.

Thanks guys and see you soon.
Peace

 

man.. i wish tampa was that lucky for getting both a supernova and a vf5 machine

 

Hey guys, any idea how much longer Gameworks plans to keep VF5? I may take a trip down to Chicago sometime to check it out now that my summer is over. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[ QUOTE ]
ice-9 said:

Hey guys, any idea how much longer Gameworks plans to keep VF5? I may take a trip down to Chicago sometime to check it out now that my summer is over. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I have gathered all betas there stay 6-8 weeks, but keep in mind it appeared that psy-phi has been there for more than this time slot. What I am assuming is that gameworks is a graveyard for everything sega related may it be a canned project or not. As far as going again, I would love to and finally get a chance to meet you. Post up or pm me, so we can get plans ironed out.

As a safety precaution I would highly recommend calling gameworks and asking if vf5 will be there at your arrival date.

Here you go:
http://www.gameworks.com/locations/schaumburg.php

Laters

 

just got my WHITE BOOK in,, so now that i've read from cover to cover (yeah right)... the whole chi-crew is heading to Gameworks tonight.. anyone come on up ..

 

[ QUOTE ]
MADrox said:

just got my WHITE BOOK in,, so now that i've read from cover to cover (yeah right)... the whole chi-crew is heading to Gameworks tonight.. anyone come on up ..

[/ QUOTE ]

Stino-
How's the thursday night sessions going and who all is part of your thursday night crew now? Any news from gameworks management on time line of vf5 being there? I guess the best thing is to leave it alone and hope they will forget it's there, lol. I'm gonna try to make it up at the end of september or first weekend in october. I'll let you know as things pan out here. Maybe this time we can get a good session going with more players. Lemme know what days are good for you?

Peace