Virtua Fighter 5 Final Release System Info

no I don't think it works like that, the whole purpose of the 0 frame throw is to stop reaction defence to it, fuzzy, press p,
If throw is executed first because of it's 0 frame nature you will have no time to , p or crouch.

so if the throw is inputted already in the right range and level, it will be 0 frames
I think thats right? lol /versus/images/graemlins/indifferent.gif

Wolf is looking more and more appealing..

 

Is it:
- Opponent simply guards -> 0-frame throw
- 13 frame disadvantage that is throwable -> 0-frame throw
- Anything else -> normal 13 frame throw

I also assume this applies to low throws?

Does this system change really negate fuzzy guarding? Because say character ABC runs up to XYZ to throw. In the situation that ABC inputs the throw before XYZ ducks, ABC wins. But if XYZ ducks before ABC inputs the throw, fuzzy guard still happens. Therefore, fuzzy guard still works but only at -1or worse. Is that right?

I also think it's interesting that execution of throws is now heavy speed--is this to balance out the throw-heavy characters who get a huge boost from the 0-frame throw? But in a way heavies are better off because now they are on even footing with most characters in that when throw counter situation is available, all characters also have an attack counter available.

 

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I don't think it would be fair for it to be something that doesn't take a considerable amount of yomi, knowledge, and execution skill. What is certain is that to play VF5 at a high level will require a tremendous amount of text book knowledge on top of good yomi, much more than VF4.

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I hear you, and this is probably a personal preference thing rather than a fundamental argument, what you wrote above is exactly why I prefer VF's dodge system over other fighers' systems. In Tekken, there are a lot of variables that lead to a successful dodge counter attack (which in Tekken can take loads of damage), such that only the most experienced players know how to take advantage of it. It's a formidable barrier for those who do not have that experience, i.e. it's not very accessible.

 

Hmmm... Virtua mini fact about throw:

After Jacky's Pak Sao(reversal) > Knuckle and Pai's +, you can dash forward a bit then perform the 0 frame throw (low throw).

 

another thing I've been thinking about w/ regards to the overall picture of the game is how AM2 seem to have taken a page from Tekken's book w/ regards to the idea that an initial attack's success can now lead to HUGE damage combos.

In general & traditionally, VF's idea about combos was that if you connected w/ a floating attack, you could follow w/ a combo that was appropriate. VF4 changed this somewhat, but basically kept the same idea, w/ the Kuzure Down system: if you landed a KD attack, you could follow w/ a combo that would give maximum damage BEFORE the oppt hit the ground, which limits how much damage is possible, since floaters on KD'd oppts don't give the best result.

Now, we have the re-float attacks, which according to David, everyone has. These can turn the KDs into merely the beginning, with the re-float attack starting a new, true air combo. And it's not just off the first hit either, as we've seen w/ Jeffry's Hell Stab > + > ++ > Air Throw. I can imagine w/ a wall, in time we'll see people finishing combos like this w/ things like . We might also see things like Jeffry's ++ into a wall, then re-floating w/ ++.

This reminds me of Tekken's stun system, although Tekken has a way out (hold , although you're still open to throws). The only way I can see out of VF5's system is if the re-float attacks are TR'able even from the ground.

In addition, there's the OM attack, which also seems to be able to set up huge damage, and the side KDs.

I think the ability to gain giant rewards from a single strike has increased greatly from VF4, especially since the KD attacks generally aren't as risky as traditional floaters.

Bryan

 

This is purely speculation... I saw some pics in the Lau community of what seems like a TR from bounce. It's not an actual TR, but rather you make yourself land and not bounce back up. I don't know if this is an actual technique or if it has been found, but it would be interesting if the bounce can be avoided. It would create another layer of gameplay if it were true.

 

Well, whether it's another layer depends on how different the ukemi is. Otherwise it's just a super high reward slam.

 

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It appears to discourage reactionary or machi-style gameplay to some degree, and instead rewards aggressive play. Brilliant!

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I guess NYC won't be playing VF5 /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*wink, wink, nudge, nudge* /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

gulp, long time no see... I think about 3 years. ANY NEWS ABOUT NEW MOVES FOR AKIRA? Ican't wait to play it on PS3. The two new characters, REY MISTERIO AND FEMALE KUNG FU SEEMS CRAP TO ME... Do u agree?

 

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Opponent is standing still, doing nothing, and you dash up and throw, it'll be a 0-frame throw.

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On hk-vf.tv, there is a new movie:
2006-6-29_16_30_JEFFRY_vs_SARAH.wmv

I'm fairly certain that around the 28th second, we see exactly what you suggest. Woah.

 

I think what you're talking about Srider is just that the person trying to re-float got the timing wrong, so the character just slams, and doesn't bounce. David (Mukatsuku Shun) reported that the timing for re-floats is really tight, and I did see this myself last night in a Jeffry clip, where ++ just hit the oppt to the ground.

I'm sure from the air they're TR'able, since this is already in Evo and FT. I'm still wondering if they are TR'able from the ground, as Jacky's + now is.

 

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Opponent is standing still, doing nothing, and you dash up and throw, it'll be a 0-frame throw.

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b) won't be able to fuzzy guard on reaction, since the throw will be instant and you won't have any time to crouch (or stand against a low throw)

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Please help me clarify this Myke. If 0 frame throws are similar to VF3's throwing then if you are just constantly fuzzy guarding won't the game just regard you as always doing something?

If you add in a smaller window for TE's, then fuzzy guarding in VF5 will be as strong as VF3. The whole point in VF3 was to get your opponent to whiff or commit to something by fuzzy guarding so you could punish faster since most people couldn't input TE's or other defensive tech's fast enough. Does this mean VF5 will play like VF3 with super strong fuzzy guarding and constant movement all the time?

I believe this would encourage machi style play and not agressive play if true.

 

does this mean for example:

akira does P,K ~ and gets +2~

in FT / Evo, you can fuzzy guard both a throw and a mid~~

in VF5 you'll be thrown no question?~ or does it become the 13 frame throw~

im also thinking about +1 situations here which you could duck throws in VF4~

sorry my understanding~~ /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

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i also think that during TRs, a 0 frame low throw would be a huge pressure tool o__O~

 

From what I understand, based on info provided by people who have played VF5, there is no more vf4 style fuzzy guarding. You can still stand up from crouch to block a mid, but you won't be able to crouch dash in disadvantage to avoid a throw.

 

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Myke said:

So, fuzzy guard is still possible against a normal 13 frame throw. If you guard a standing P (-1) or eat a P,K (-2), you should still be able to fuzzy guard the mid and throw if it's entered during the hit/guard stun.

But as I was saying earlier, someone just waiting there bobbing up and down won't be able to fuzzy against a throw which will be 0-frames.

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The implications of the above is true is interesting...sometimes it's better to wait for the advantage to pass from a hit stun to discourage fuzzy guarding?? I.e. being +1 or +2 isn't worth very much?

 

ahhhh i think seeee~~ would that occur in a 0 frame state? for example goh gets +0 for ~ his throw would then become 0 frames right?~

i think especially that would create massive pressure with a wolf who gets MC low Kick~~

in VF4, it's played with low P cut against low P, ~ screw hook against a slower move, and throw against a freezer or evader.

in VF5 the game would be MASSIVLEY harder if the throw becomes 0 frames, because the oppponent cant move anywhere, and must make an instant 3-taku choice.

orelse they get thrown instantly ~ /versus/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


wowww, ~

 

I am still not sure if this will improve the game, or if it will decline it.

Whole VF5 seems to me to go through the way where you gain more damage from the same risk - and you gain it with more ease.

 

well, if what i said is correct~ which im not sure exactly~~

it means neutral frame situations (-0) will be a very hard situation~, which has never really been "a choice game" in VF4 because you can move freely from throw windows without playing a choice game.

if throwing is instant, (0 frames), then instances like pai's, kage's df+k, wolf's b+k, kage's uf+k+g on block, ~ mabye even throw escapes which leave you at -0~ all happen, then you have no window to move or fuzzy guard, it's a static choice~

however you still cant go for elbow nitaku either~ it's either low P or guess low P, or ETEG~

i think /versus/images/graemlins/indifferent.gif

and not only that, but the opponent plays exactly the same choice game as you there is no advantage or disadvantage~

which confuses me abit with "who will win the throw attempt if executed at the same time" o___o

infact, that situation confuses me abit...