Virtua Fighter 5 Playstation 3 Version

Re: Smarter AI vs. Online Play

I know a lot of people who "gave a damn" about DOAU as the first fighting game which ever made reaching high level play a reasonable goal. Hell, I'm pretty sure that Offbeat, Master, Silent Legend, Justownin all got their start in online play. The fact the game was online was really more important than it being a "less good" version of DOA2.

Well, there's a big difference between the typical lag you get with playing someone with a good connection and the insanely bad lag I had against Offbeat Ninja. I lost most of the matches due to Ein low kick starter, which the lag made it nearly impossible to block or counter. Most online play is not like that.

What I resent most of all is the fact those players all opted not to participate in the final online ranking tournament for DOAU. Out of all the players who were invited to come back for that, only Majin agreed. And he lost his title to me as a result. I don't really even like bringing that up because I don't like to say anything bad against Majin's reputation. Hell, he actually had the guts to come out and fight even when he knew he was somewhat out of practice. But as for the rest of the so called "great" DOAU players, I lost all respect for them after that.

Fine, why don't you come on XBL sometime and I'll show you my level of skill? I'd need a bit of practice before I could get completely back to the height of my skill, but I think after playing me you would walk away convinced that I am not full of crap.

When did an online player who possessed skill that was recognised online ever get owned online? I have never heard of an actual case where this happened.

If there is an offline VF scene in Minnesota I'm all for it. In that case, I'll be sure to get together with them after VF5 comes out for the 360. I think your argument that players can drive each others skill to the point where online competition becomes uneccesary has merit, but I was never able to find anyone else who was was half as devoted as me. Then again perhaps I just wasn't looking hard enough.

I still think having online play too would be even better though.

 

Re: Smarter AI vs. Online Play

Most of what you said had already been discussed in some way or another, but regarding countering on reaction... It is possible to do online, and it also happens to be a lot easier to do in DOA2U online than DOA4. I can't say it's possible regardless of lag, and sometimes you do have to make an educated guess, but in a relatively lag free online match of DOA2U I do most of my countering based on reaction.

DOA4, under any circumstances mostly ends up being guessing though. Yet another reason DOA4 is trash.

 

Well maybe the Xbox 360 version WILL have online multiplayer through XBOX live. They are going to have to offer a compelling feature for me to consider buying it, considering half the planet will already have the ps3 version 7 months prior. I agree though, human opponents are hard to find. Mostly I draft my hapless brother or friends to fight me, and record the replays to gloat my mastery over their n00bness. Guilty pleasure.

 

Re: Smarter AI vs. Online Play

I've played mutipule fighters online. People with a good sense of how plays online play is will tell you that lag doesn't always hurt players equally not to mention that some players will intentionally lag by downgrading the speed rate without hurting themselves worst than the player than they play against in order to increase their chances of winning. Too add to that, in some connections, I can tell if the player has more or less lag on their side and my own just by the frame movements on both ends. This has already been acknowledged.

The two names I can think of in Srk forums jason blackman and The Legend Killer. These two thought that since they beat people like Alex Valle, Danny, Biggzy and etc in lag, they thought they can easily beat them offline and some actually thought those two were good. They thought that they deserved to be realized for their inferior skills, but as soon as The Legend Killer went to T7 in Canada, he lost horribly. He couldn't win once against anyone their. Jason Blackman couldn't win at people that he beaten online at ECC, and the only excuse he had was "I brought a crappy controller with me and I could've taken them if I had a good one". Lame.

In doac is Julius Rage. He thought his Zack was awesome and he thought he can take on skilled opponents. Offline in EGL, he was easily eliminated...

I can understand that you don't have enough money to travel, but you can only tell when your a skilled opponent if the gameplay is even such as offline. Online play doesn't make anyone recognized only for a online rank that people with enough common sense that tell that it's corrupt. Online and offline aren't equal no matter how a person interpret it. If it was equal, then there would be no need offline match finders, local, state, or world tournaments.

 

There is no such thing as lag-free online. If I want to counter out of stun within a string, it's usually not possible (not to mention some lows are very annoying to block online). And even then, online always gives inconsistent results. There is no skill involved online, especially when you don't how serious or not the person on the other side is. Some things may be possible, but in no way can you develop skill or maintain it in an incocsistent environment. I don't care how smooth DOAU may have seemed; it's not the same thing as pure offline with actual people face-to-face.

Online especially, DOA4 may seem like a guessing fest. But offline, there is a big difference going for it. I won't say it doesn't have its flaws, but many people downplay the game very quickly. But even the people who call DoA4 trash will still agree that offline is very different and a much better experience. Online is ONLY for casual play, and even that can go bland very quickly becasue of the whole online nature (when lag is very noticeable, when people just fight and stay quiet, it's just not fun online ever). That and the lazy nonsupporters that stay playing online instead of attending local gatherings is what is killing our community the most.

 

SEGA and AM2 are full of crap. THEY said they tried making the console version online, and couldnt because the lag was so bad time related things like reversals and counter attacks couldnt work. Thats bS because both counter attacks and REVERALS work on DOA ultimate and DOA 4. So that whole claim that it wouldnt work online is bullshit.

the console team was either lazy or incompetant. "IT would be something other thna VF if we did it online"; rubbish. What were they testing VF5 online with? Dial up? are they retarded? They could have subjugated the outfits and extras to content downloads, and spent more time on the Vf online multiplayer aspect. Vf4 evo's quest was great , but Id rather online than that if I had to choose. Or they should have altered the quest mode to HAVING TO BEAT X AMOUNT OF PLAYERS ONLINE AND ONLY THE BEST PLAYERS get titles such as "Champion" or "Protector", and they can lose it to another player. THAT would liven up the quest mode 10 fold. I mean the AI in VF4 EVO was phenominal, but god give us live players. I only know one guy as good as me in VF in my area, and he doesnt even play anymore.

So Im stuck beating on my friends who dont really play the game in depth.

 

This is the most irritating thing I read on videogame message boards. Surely you realize that neither is likely the case.

 

I guess I'll throw my 2 cents here. although the arguments about "having online is better than not having it" make sense, I'm don't agree with it. 

first, AM2 said that they tried VF5 online and the game felt like a whole deferent one than the arcade. in other meaning its NOT VF5 at all. so they have to change the whole gameplay engine in order to compromise with offline play. and no VF fan wants that at all. just look at what happened to DOA. DOA3 was damn nice but DOA4 was sadly SHIT. just coz TECMO refined the gameplay engine so people may not feel the big deference between online and offline play.

i'm with AM2's decision of not implementing online play for one reason, and that's VF reputation. as i see it, right now a lot of gamers want to try VF5 just coz of its reputation of being deepest fighting game ever or how the game needs a lot of skills to compete etc.... and once the game go threw online play and most of the gamers who don't know shit about VF, realize that what they're training offline for can't be done online, will start to get frustrated and will start bashing VF.and they will most likely think that a lot of stupid games (like MK for example) is much more better game.

i know that some people here don't have anybody to play with so it sucks for them. but honestly do you believe that you are the only person in your city who plays fighting games or even VF? do you honestly believe that the retailer who is near to you and the one you bought a fighting game or VF from will be selling it only for you? of-course not. you people just wont look hard for other fighting gamers. 

ok, here is maybe an easy way to find players beside using the internet. just go to the retailers in your city and ask them nicely to put an add about finding other players who would like to gather for few matches or so. most likely you'll find someone willing to play. and by this you start a scene. but of-course you'll have to be patient at the same time.

 

OMFG...do you even know the differences between reversals in DOA and VF? Stop sounding clueless, please.

 

sorry to derail the online vs not online eternal debate which is a futile debate since we know the answer that it wont have online.

I got a Question for the console version and hope someone can answer.

Q: like Ridge Racer 7 had a partial install to make the load times faster; will VF5 on the PS3 have a partial install thingy like Ridge Racer 7 to reduce the load tims???

 

Yes it does.

 

See now this is whatIm talking about. I wish VF5 was going to be online,ice-9 .So I couldhavea match with you and PUMMEL YOUR ASS!

Oh I guess your going to tellmethe difference between DOA and VF5 reversals: frames. How obsessively patheticdo you have to try to say theresa world of difference in the twogames reversals basedon a few frames,,,maybe justa tenth of a second.

Theres not enough smokeinthe world that you can blow up our asses tomakeus believe an OPTION of online multiplayer would destroy VF5's reputation. It would mearly be an option, not the whole game. Its that kind of nit picking , obsessive mentality that kept it out,and ruined the chance ofworld wideVF tourneys for the generalpublic . A handful of obsessive nerds screwed themillions that will buy the game.

Oh well. Its not a debate really, whats doneis done, I can complain if I want though. But did VF2's online nultiplayer on the PC RUIN VF2's rep??? Noit was a nice OPTION. TAKE your head out of your ass and realize that.

 

And the fact that Tekken supports online play also makes it more popular than VF, correct?

 

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/virtu...t&click=topslot


Quick article about some hands on testing of VF5, not the most in depth but worth the read.

 

No, but having the choice of online didn't detract from Tekken either.
Did it?

GoDokunoDan:
I assume tomakeus is something between a tomato, a pool que and a tomahawk?

 

wow...wow...crappy CONTROLLER??? i'm assuming you mean a pad. if so, is that guy serious? he's trying to take on good players in a game that primarily uses sticks at high level...

i'm not saying you can't advance on pad, but i dunno man. i dunno what that guy was thinking.

 

Re: Smarter AI vs. Online Play

I'm sorry, it was our understanding that you guys lived in Youngstown. Who of your dojo does live there?

 

Re: Smarter AI vs. Online Play

It is true several of us live in Youngstown,
But not everyone....

 

Re: Smarter AI vs. Online Play

No need to go online. Hop on a plane and come to the Socal event, as I will be doing, and you will have the opportunity to pummel my ass personally. If you dare, that is.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh I guess your going to tellmethe difference between DOA and VF5 reversals: frames. How obsessively patheticdo you have to try to say theresa world of difference in the twogames reversals basedon a few frames,,,maybe justa tenth of a second.</div></div>

It's more than a tenth of a second and it's enough to make a world of difference goduckydan.

Where are you located?

 

Are you stupid? A reversal in DoA is obscenely different not just in the frames.

First off reversals in DoA BREAK OUT OF CRITICAL STUNS AND GUARD BREAKS. If you don't understand this concept you need to rethink this. In VF if you are hit by move that puts you in a -9 hit stun, you can't hit 4P+K and expect it to break you out of it, you have to buffer it relatively late in order for it to come out. In DoA you almost every freaking attack stuns and you can break them instantly with a reversal, INSTANTLY. There extremely few true combos in DoA and even less normal hit launchers.

Then saying "just a few frames difference" is retarded.

You do understand that the DoA reversal is:
0 frame exe
22 frame window
8 frame recovery (less for a low reversal)

that's instant execution and almost a half second worth of reversal time. You're stupid if you don't see how easy it is. In VF reversals are usually:
1 frame exe
10 frame window
19 frame recovery

Maybe your just really stupid, but I played DoA hardcore and that difference is HUGE. Not to mention in VF there a ton of attacks that can't be reversed, if you try you'll get hit. In DoA irreversable attacks instead cause a sidestep, which sometimes leads to more damage than the reversal.